Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn — Cool, Fresh and… Unstable

[ Wednesday, 6 June 2007, michuk ]

It has been a long while since I have written my last review of a GNU/Linux distribution. Lack of time was one of the reasons, second being the fact that my Ubuntu system just worked and I haven’t been in a mood to experiment lately. This will not be another “I just installed Ubuntu — it beats Windows — try it yourself” type of review. It is going to be rather a report from another successful upgrade, pointing out the biggest surprises and the most miserable failures of the latest release of Ubuntu Linux, codenamed Feisty Fawn.

Author: Borys Musielak

Short history first. I started using Ubuntu Linux just when this distribution first appeared, 3.5 years ago with Warty Warthog. I switched from a totally screwed-up installation of Debian Sid which was my previous distribution of choice. Since then I upgraded the system more or less regularly every six months, following the Ubuntu release cycle. I had to clean install only once since two years ago I changed my laptop. As you can see, I can be called a hardcore Ubuntu user. I could say that I know this system like my own pocket, provided that the contents of my pocket weren’t a mystery to me most of the times. So, what was the biggest surprise in the recently released Ubuntu 7.04 to me? Read on if you’re interested.

Upgrade process

For the first time in my life I decided to use a graphical user interface to upgrade GNU/Linux. Before I used to call spells like apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade with insane smile on my face. This time it was different. I grew up and decided to use the Ubuntu Upgrade Manager — a state-of-the-art upgrade manager. It looked like on the following screen.

upgrade edgy do feisty
Rys.1 Edgy to Feisty upgrade in progress

The program occurred to be a rather decent one. It managed to upgrade my whole system in the background! While I was successfully doing some other totally irrelevant stuff, an unexpected pop-up suddenly informed me that I should restart my Feisty Fawn machine. I obeyed and restarted my machine instantly.

Where are my applications?

My new Ubuntu after a successful reboot booted up without causing problems and let me log in to a little bit refreshed GNOME desktop which has been my desktop of course for years. The only surprise was that the system lacked a few applications that have been previously installed. These were Amarok, K3B and some other “K” apps and my special edition of OpenOffice.org from UxSystems which has been replaced with the default edition available in Ubuntu 7.04. The change wasn’t anything I would care for. I used OpenOffice.org UX only because the Edgy Eft version wouldn’t allow me to open any files saved in OpenOffice.org 2.1. The problem ceased to exist in Feisty Fawn so I ceased to care as well. Maybe with an exception that the documents created in previous versions of OO.org tend to be displayed somewhat differently in the new release (the most irritating was the positions of tables and graphics), something that I cannot understand and justify. Oh well, I fixed the documents manually and apt-get the missing KDE apps. The personal settings were kept so the trouble was still minimal.

New features in Feisty Fawn

Plenty of new features that Ubuntu 7.04 introduced didn’t really impress me. Except for the upgrade manager I don’t think I benefited from any. The migration assistant was no use for me since I do not have a Windows installation on my computer. Automatic multimedia codecs download seems nice but I use Automatix2 anyway since this downloads all at once. However, when I tried using this magic feature on a different machine it failed miserably to enable WMV support on Totem — the system detected a missing codec and downloaded something but failed to play the media. I used MPlayer which obviously caused no problems at all.

One more feature that may be not crucial for a desktop user but it probably a big benefit for the developers is the introduction of Apport — a tool for automatic error handling and delivering to the Canonical team. The feature turned out to be useful quite soon — when Automatix failed to install a Netbeans package for some unclear reason.

apport w ubuntu feisty
Rys.2 Automatic error notification using Apport

apport w ubuntu feisty
Rys.3 Sending an error report to Canonical

Pleasant surprises

In spire of the fact that I read some 15 different Feisty reviews in the last few weeks, the OS (or rather the apps it provides) surprised me a few times in a good way:

  • Fonts — no idea what happened, but they look nicer than in Edgy Eft. Notice that I have never complained on fonts in Eddy so this means that they got even better in Feisty. I cannot explain what have exactly changed though, I just see that they look kind of more pleasant. And I like it this way :)
  • Fast OpenOffice.org 2.2 — obviously the suite starts like a turtle (no change here), but I have noticed that once launched, it loads up new document like a breeze — much faster than in 2.1. The ODT parser must have been enhanced or perhaps other things have been optimized for speed, but the gain is obvious. Big plus to the developers. I just hope once OpenOffice.org suite will be also able to start as fast as MS Office under Windows.
  • Rhythmbox learned how to cooperate with Sony Ericsson. Indeed it learned the trick. Before it tried but with little success. Now it reads my MP3 files saved on the telephone MemoryStick with no problems. I can alter the ID3 tags, remove, load new ones or even play the music directly from the phone connected to my laptop. Little thing, but a nice one.

Miserable failures

Nobody likes failures. Even declared losers. Unfortunately in case of Feisty Fawn there are quite a few of those. And they aren’t minor once. Let’s name but a few…

  • Unstable Liferea. My favorite RSS reader got crazy after upgrade to 1.2.10 (default in Feisty). Once upon a while it simply crashes. Probably segfaulting, but I cannot prove it since I usually run it from GNOME toolbar and can’t see any useful logs anywhere. The crashes are unpredictable and totally random. They happen when I right-click on one of the feeds, sometimes just after changing focus to the reader — no pattern here. I even submitted a bug to the authors but it was too general and I was too lazy to investigate the matter in detail. Just switched to Google Reader. Yeah, I know it sucks…
  • liferea   liferea
    Rys 4-5. Liferea — works — not works :)

  • Beryl, Compiz…. — well ii “kind of works”. I can see the cube, I can move the wobby windows. But it’s too unstable to use it daily. Sometimes the toolbars just disappear when using the Beryl window manager. In such case killall beryl && metacity --replace fixes the thing but of course we don’t want regular users to cast such spells. It’s very slow too. Scrolling in some applications take forever. And it’s pretty strange since playing couple of movies while playing with the cube doesn’t seem to bother it, but minimizing and maximizing a window sometimes result in frame-dropping-like effect. To put it short — it’s unusable. At least in my typical laptop Intel graphic card (with free open-source drivers).
  • /etc/init.d/dbus restart — this command is probably well-known to all Feisty users. NetworkManager cannot detect any network? The computer fails to hibernate or suspend? GNOME acts unstable? Restarting DBUS service is a magic cure to all. It’s great but… doesn’t the fact that I have to complain about it disqualifies the distribution as a “regular user” friendly? Well, yes it does.


Ubuntu 7.04 is a great OS for a person who likes “the computer” to do things for him but at the same time enables the user to configure anything he wants manually without screwing the installation. I’m that type of person, actually. Unfortunately it isn’t stable enough to recommend it for real work. For this purpose I would go for version 6.06 Dapper Drake. It’s stable, mature and all the bugs have been already fixed. My father actually uses it on the desktop in his company and has no problems whatsoever.

I have an impression that Canonical was very determined to release Ubuntu 7.04 on schedule. However I think Mark forgot about one crucial thing — it’s stability, stupid! In fact 95% users care about stability the most. Features, eye-candy, fancy effects — it’s all cool and “useful” but it the system crashes, you cannot get your work done. Linux is not a toy, at least for me. I demand a system that works in a stable manner. All the rest has lower priority. I really hope that the philosophy “let’s release it on time, anything we have” will be dropped in Canonical and replaced with “let’s release it when it’s ready”. I mean really ready. With no annoying bugs that make people believe Linux is not mature enough to use it on desktop.

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fold this thread reviewlinux  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 1:08 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Well I have been using Ubuntu 7.04 since Day 1 of it’s release on my new Intel DG965OT Motherboard with my old Pentium D 3.0g CPU which actually arrived at my door the day 7.04 was released.

I havent had any of the problems you have stated but I do sympathize with the problems that can face some installations of Linux.

My Ubuntu 7.04 ran for well over a month until recent auto update for kernel when I finally had to reboot the machine. Ubuntu 7.04 on my machine is stable.

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fold this thread davemc  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 3:14 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Ive been running Fiesty on my old Pentium 2.4G, 512MRAM system using it as a file server since the week after release. I think this review, and one or two others similar to it actually attempt to describe the reality of the situation with this distro. The mindless, raving, fanboy reviews that preceeded them are nothing but that. Ubuntu is, and never has been, the best distro for newbies, nor is it even close to being the best distro. No, sorry, it has a very, very long ways to go to achieve that title. Ill rank its gargantuan shortcomings -

1. No preinstalled codecs or proprietary (nvidia or ati) drivers on install. This is a massive shortcoming for the new, ex-windows user new to linux. There simply are no good reasons for this not to be anymore. Those of us who have paid for an expensive video card really could care less about your “free software” morals or your reasons for not preloading my drivers so I can have full functionality from my hardware. Just pathetic IMO.

2. Codec and driver failures post install. Yep, just as described in this and other reviews, the touted ability of Ubuntu to grab and install needed codecs fails much more often than not. Out of the 7 or 8 times that it actually attempted this, only one actually succeeded. Thats about a 10 o 12% success rate. Again, pathetic.

3. No support for beryl or 3D. Yes, I heard that this is not supported because it is supposedly unstable. But, it is only unstable on Ubuntu out of all the Distro’s I have tried. Nice try, but try again, because other distros have made beryl completely stable (Sabayon.. cough cough).

4. Lack of innovation. As was stated in the recent Debian Etch review, Ubuntu is nothing more than a wannabe Debian Etch install, and certainly offers nothing that Etch does not already. Yep, thats right. Install Etch, and you’ve got Ubuntu, only Etch is far more stable. Makes me wonder what Debian might accomplish if they had a ten million dollar foundation to back them up….

There are some good points to using Ubuntu however, and it is a barely passable distro for the new user if they have the stomach to load and configure all the stuff they should not have to if they were to either stick with XP, or try a real Distro like Sabayon, PCLos, Mepis, PuppyLinux, and even a few more. My recommendation to Canonical is to repeal Fiesty and return to 6.06. Start over from scratch, and this time take it seriously and make a real Distro worthy of the Linux worlds attention.

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fold this thread BlahBlahX  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 4:08 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I think that most of your problems were with 3D effects. That isn’t Ubuntu’s fault, it is beryl and compiz’s fault. Why don’t you just turn off 3D? That way everything will be more stable.

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fold this thread speedygeo  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 6:42 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

The great problem that I have with my KUbuntu 7.04 is the recognizing of my ATI Radeon X300 on my DELL Inspiron 9300 laptop.
With the default driver 3D apps don’t works. The same reaction I had with the ATI flgrx driver. Actually I use the radeon driver, like suggest MEPIS and it works quite well. The only app that don’t works is googleearth. I hope AMD fix that in the future.
KUbuntu is my greatest linux experience!!

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fold this thread Tuxicity  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 7:48 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Clueless Review, Automatix is a sure way to ruin your operating system, and is not supported by Ubuntu in any way shape or form.

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fold this thread Hombre  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 9:29 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Netbeans issue is quite simple. Those package is actually a stub and requires manual downloading a tar file and placing it to the /tmp. It shows requirements and waits the manual confirmation of such event.

Moreover, there is an issue on Netbeans in Beryl.

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fold this thread Iyok  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 10:36 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I have no problem using Ubuntu 7.04 Fiesty Fawn, it’s just work perfectly including Beryl. It’s better than Edgy.

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fold this thread klekle  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 12:27 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

i was using 6.06, 6.10, and 7.04 is the most stable version for me, since april i havent had any problems, no freezing etc, just perfect. you say, ubuntu bad, ubuntu sucks, let’s switch back to xp ;)

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fold this thread Luis  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 1:18 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Thanks, it was a nice review of your experience with it.

As you see, each person has a different experience. For some, 6.06 was very buggy, for others it was 6.10 that was buggy. For you it’s 7.04…

It’s a pity that it’s impossible to achieve a distro that just works for everyone. But that’s life, I guess…

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fold this thread Josef  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 2:28 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Hi, I am running both Kubuntu Feisty and Dapper from the two Feisty seems better to me (Dapper has some problems in non-standard CUPS config, actually fixed in Edgy). It runs even all those Beryl effects fine. I do not use them since the machine is too slow to handle FS video with Beryl enabled (1GHz PIII). The only problem I had with Feisty was to get my nVidia Geforce 4MX running. It is apparently unsupported by nVidia but it started to work when I did an upgrade from Edgy. No way (other than compiling the driver from source) could make it work on a new Feisty install..
That was strange.
Other than that – pretty smooth run.

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fold this thread davemc  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 3:27 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Interesting that I see comments that are predominantly in denial yet give no supporting reasons for thier arguement as I, and the reviewer did. The issue is not wether Ubuntu is an OK distro as distro’s go, rather, its that Ubuntu’s claim of the noobest of the noob friendly distro’s is patently false! Please stop touting this nonsense. If the user must crack a terminal, it is no longer noob friendly, plain and simple. Its almost as if you have a very large segment of the Linux world stuck on a crac pipe living in some dream world, because Ubuntu is very VERY buggy for an aweful lot of folks! For the not so Linux noob, the Buntu’s are fine, even good.

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fold this thread raihan hasnain  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 9:53 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Fiesty really lacks stability. I still prefer using dapper drake 6.06.

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fold this thread Dale  Thursday, 7 June 2007 o godz. 11:26 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I don’t get the stability comments. I Have been using Ubuntu for a couple of years now myself and I did a seemless upgrade to fiesty from dapper drake. 0 hitches 0 problems. Biggest issue I usually have is between the ears but this distribution is clearly a refined product. Look, yes Ubuntu is a dumbed down Debian distribution. But for the vast majority who download it and use it is simply delivers. The Beryl and Compiz stuff I totally agree upon and it is a good thin that they are not the default display managers, hopefully they can be by the time 7.10 strolls around. Anyhow that is my two cents.

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fold this thread Gigi  Friday, 8 June 2007 o godz. 7:43 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I must say that the review was quite close what i felt. the migration assistant is good tool but i think it must migrate date from another linux installation (say fedora) too. I didnt try beryl on feisty but compiz has caused all sorts of weird hangups. As far the mature and stable dapper, well i still run it on my server.

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fold this thread Vincent  Friday, 8 June 2007 o godz. 5:56 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I will not deny that your issues with liferea aren’t annoying, but they may be specific to you and at least it does not come default ;)

/etc/init.d/dbus restart does sound extremely annoying, luckily I do not have this problem in my current Xubuntu Feisty install ;) It might come with Gutsy though…

Then there’s Beryl, Compiz…. Well, honestly, be reasonable. It’s alpha software. It’s not meant to be stable. You should know that if you use it (though I think Ubuntu should warn for it when it comes to “enabling desktop effects”).

Still, all in all, everyone does have one or another problem, so I think Feisty can be considered far from perfect. However, it does have a lot of attracting features (even though you might disagree), and Dapper hasn’t been labeled “LTS” for nothing.

Plus, name me one OS that noone has problems with :P

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fold this thread Kalpik  Saturday, 9 June 2007 o godz. 5:35 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Hmm.. Someone who uses automatrix should not be reviewing Ubuntu.. Trust me..

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fold this thread Plato  Sunday, 10 June 2007 o godz. 1:24 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I found your remarks about Open Office 2.2 on Ubuntu a bit strange. It seems to me that improvement of speed has nothing particular to do with OO2.2. I have 2.0.4 on Debian Etch and it behave the way you described.
As for Compiz – it works like charm on Debian Etch. I have used it for a month and had no issues at all.
As a consequence – don’s see any reason to use Ubuntu if there is Debian.

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fold this thread Tony  Sunday, 10 June 2007 o godz. 5:23 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I have tried many distro (from Linux to Solaris based) before I finally choose Ubuntu Feisty Fawn. It works very well with my Lenovo T60, it’s very stable with the following config (I use it every day) :
- Beryl (with transparency effect, cube, etc.)
- OpenOffice
- VMware Player (2.0) – required to run XP with Visio and Microsoft Outlook & PowerPoint
- Gaim – for Yahoo Messenger & SameTime (used in my company)
- NetworkManager applet

I have also tried many testing to ensure that Feisty is stable enough for use in a public presentation (since I don’t want my laptop to crashed while I am doing presentation).

However, certain features does not work well on older laptop or certain model of laptop (I tried it with IBM T42, T43, ACER Aspire 5052ANWXMi), usually because these laptop configured with a non supported hardware (i.e. weak 3D card from ATI, or non supported wifi card, etc.).

I must admit that installing Linux in any PC needs some sort of UNIX knowledge, otherwise I can assure you that some (or even a lot of) features will not work out of the box.

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fold this thread Llamafarmer  Sunday, 10 June 2007 o godz. 7:13 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I don’t get the stability issue either, except for Beryl/Compiz, which, of course, IS NOT enabled by default in this distribution for that very reason – it’s not stable yet on many machines, particularly laptops. I have been running Fiesty since it was released without any errors of any kind on an HP Pavilion dv8000, which has an ATI R200 video card, and it does not do Beryl/Compiz at all. Of course, the included Broadcom wi-fi does not work without ndiswrapper, but that’s common with all distributions, not just Fiesty. I use an Atheros pcmcia card and it works perfectly. The failure of vendors to support linux is not the fault of any particular distribution, but the fault of the vendors, who have calculated that it is not worth their while to provide support for their hardware in linux. We should boycott those vendors – but that’s often not possible because the hardware designers such as HP, Dell, etc. continue to use the unsupported hardware. As I say, other than those two problems, on my laptop, Fiesty is stable as a rock and works perfectly “out of the box.”

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fold this thread michuk  Monday, 11 June 2007 o godz. 12:34 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I think that most of your problems were with 3D effects. That isn’t Ubuntu’s fault, it is beryl and compiz’s fault. Why don’t you just turn off 3D? That way everything will be more stable.

I turned 3d effects off 2 hours after enabling them for the first time. So no — the problems were certainly not due to 3d. And by the way — I really like Ubuntu. It is still my distro of choice. In this review I just wanted to warn all that it’s not a micacle distro — a cure for all problems, that’s all.

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fold this thread Al  Monday, 11 June 2007 o godz. 4:46 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

It seems your review is based on an upgrade and not a fresh install. so it’s not really fair to slate the entire distro just over the upgrade application, granted it’s not great it doesn’t work as it should, but fiesty on a fresh install does work fine for me and many other people.

Perhaps you can try again on a clean install and see where it gets you…

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fold this thread Ed Tillman  Monday, 11 June 2007 o godz. 6:57 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Hi Borys!

I’m one of those Linux newbies you kinda brushed-off early on in the article. However, I have over 20+ years computer experience and several certifications to back myself. I took the test-pilot approach to desktop Linux: I got several variants (Ubuntu, Linspire, Freespire, Fedora, etc.), and tried them all in either on-disk or safe-modes, before settling on Ubuntu 6.06 as my then distro of choice.

I’m currently running 7.04FF, kernel 2.6.20-15, (dual-boot under Grub with Windows XP/SP2) on an Acer 3050 laptop with an AMD (Sempron 3400+/x86) 1.8Ghz CPU, 1.0Gb RAM, and a 40Gb HDD. Note: even with all the problems listed below, I’m actually beginning to love working in the Ubuntu/Linux environment…

I had a few problems with the 6.06 load, but nothing I couldn’t learn or tweak my way through. Then came 7.04, and the troubles began: only a few, to be sure, but enough to get my attention.

First, I run a hybrid home network, both wired and wireless. 7.04 with the avahi-daemon won’t see past my wired “.local” network, and so won’t locate the wireless portion of my network. 6.06 didn’t seem to have the problem. That’s not a major issue at the moment, and won’t be when I shift away from my current service provider, but, its a pain none the less.

Second: for some reason, in kernel 2.6.20-15, audio control bypasses the task bar volume control, but can be controlled in the shell by either the (ALSA) “PCM” or the “Center” controls: Again, a minor pain, but, dealable if I use onboard app functions (works @85% of the time) to control audio. My real audio problem comes with kernel 2.6.20-16, which doesn’t give me any audio at all, either under ALSA or OSS mixers. After half a day of frustration, I reverted to kernel 2.6.20-15, and audio control restored as mentioned above. However, the auto-update function keeps trying to get me to reload kernel 2.6.20-16. No dice right now…

All that being said, I love the light disk-load (4.6Gb compared to 11.4Gb for the comparable XP load!), install speed, system speed, the functionality, its online aggressiveness (XP/Firefox, Ubuntu/Firefox, and the sharpness of its video (XP/VLC media player, Ubuntu/VLC media player)!

I’m more than pleased with everything else I’ve discovered in this load, and greatly look forward to the (hopefully) improved 7.XX package as soon as its released.



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fold this thread Kevin  Monday, 11 June 2007 o godz. 7:20 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I recently installed Ubuntu (7.04) after trying a couple of other linux flavors. I’ve been working with computers since my first run-in with a Sanyo MBC-555 (1984-ish). I’ve worked with DOS and all MS Windows flavors (from v3.1 to Vista).. After playing for Vista and giving it a good 4-6 months, I repartitioned my drive and loaded Ubuntu for the first time.

********I LOVE IT!!!********

Sure, I’m used to having more “out-of-the-box” functionality, but that’s just the ignorance and laziness that Microsoft products instill in it’s users.

I have a bit of a learning curve ahead of me, but it’s one that I look forward to…


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fold this thread Chris  Monday, 11 June 2007 o godz. 7:35 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

The point is, if you’re going to OFFER an upgrade, then it should darn well work. You shouldn’t HAVE to do a clean install to have a working computer. Not in the 6-month upgrade cycle of Ubuntu anyway.

Let’s take Windows as an example here. If I do an upgrade from 98 to XP (because who would downgrade ANY machine to Vista??), everything had better work they way it’s supposed to. Yes, it will be slower than a fresh install (because it inherits a bloated registry, among other things), but it shouldn’t suffer any unexpected problems outside of that. What we have here is an Ubuntu system that after an upgrade simply doesn’t work correctly.

Yes, you could argue that unlike a Windows upgrade disc, the Ubuntu disc offers you a full, clean installation. So that’s an option. But that also nukes all your personal settings and data too. If they are going to provide a distro-upgrade utility, it should work, plain and simple. Otherwise, don’t release it as a “stable” distro. That’s what betas are for.

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fold this thread David Walker  Monday, 11 June 2007 o godz. 7:57 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I agree with Al. There are very few upgrades that work as well as a fresh installation. There are million of lines of code and any of them could go wrong. The idea that every bit of code is tested with every piece of hardware with every possible installation routine is a pretty scary undertaking especially even for a paid product. Even when you spend $500 on an O/S from a company that spends 9 billion dollars on an operating system.. Its still notoriously difficult to get everything working perfectly all the time. Linux is free dude and it works better for me than the $500 knockoff.

My last install of Ubuntu was on a 6 year old laptop with a dead CD drive and it wouldn’t boot from USB drive or from a PCMCIA CD. I was able to do a net installation with a floppy disk. (Try doing that from a PC or Mac!) It first started with Hoary. From there I had to do distro upgrade to distro upgrade all the way to Feisty. It still works flawlessly.

I also run Fiesty on my Dell Optiplex 745 at the office, C400 on the road and home built AMD X2 at home. Again.. they all work flawlessly.

Thankfully.. its Linux.. so.. If it doesn’t work well for you then back to Edgy or Dapper until things improve. You could also try PCLinuxOS, SimplyMepis or CentOS. We’re all family!

I’m really sorry to hear about the trouble though..

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fold this thread paul  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 12:58 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

i dist-upgraded from edgy to feisty and have had no problems at all. beryl is not considered stable enough to be preinstalled, i have it installed but most of the time its not on. doesn’t make me more productive.

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fold this thread lololer  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 1:51 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Sheeeeet. Did you pay for this buddy?? WHAT!!! FREE?!!! no way!

wow, well i guess even free with bugs isn’t good enough…whats that?? You can send bugs in and people will listen? nahhhh surely not. Wow! u can!. Fantastic!.

I don’t know what you guys are talking about ‘out of the box’ functionality on windows upgrades for….have u used vista?? did u install service pack 2?? has any linux distro attempted to sneak software onto your pc that reports on you!?


I can deal with my OS being buggy as long as it gets fixed. Thats just life. Im a programmer and I dont see how ANYONE could ever get %100 of the bugs out of anything, let alone an OS.

But mostly what are your options? Mac….yah….vista….lol.

I just hope this is the end of the Microsoft ‘you will use whatever shite we give you and damn well enjoy it’ philosophy of software design. Go ubuntu.

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fold this thread Don  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 7:35 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I tried out Feisty fawn on some non-critical machines at my
workplace, a friend’s 4 year old laptop, and finally an old Win 98
machine which was already dual booted for Suse 10.1 and Win 98
and it just flat out works better than any Linux distro I’ve seen yet.

Ubuntu just amazes me at what it can do right away without having to
do a bunch of tweaking.

Beryl is a little flaky at times, but very fascinating

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fold this thread Ken  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 2:16 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

You should try Etch. It’s stable, much cleaner and can do everything Ubuntu can.

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fold this thread SirYes  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 2:35 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I am too one of the (rare?) people that experienced problems with Feisty 7.04.
On two different machines, even with clean install. So far I’m delaying the upgrade
of Ubuntu on my laptop (I did it three times already! 5.04 -> 5.10 -> 6.06 -> 6.10).
Instead, I am going to install 7.04 cleanly on another partition to see if in this
particular case things will be different.

Or maybe install experimental Gutsy Gibbon Tribe 1 test release?

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fold this thread lizzard  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 3:31 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

There are plenty of OS options around that offer ‘upgrades’ that are unstable. Why just look at a well known Seattle company for instance…

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fold this thread David  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 3:57 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Yet another user here with 100% faultless install of 7.04 – on an ancient 256MB PIII and a new Core Duo laptop (Vista wiped off it).

As for davemc’s ranting about this not being any good for noobs … that’s rubbish. I could sit anyone with the slightest knowledge of computers in front of Ubuntu and know they would have zero problems surfing, emaling, writing letters, playing music, etc.

I’d also be confident their system would remain secure and virus / bug free, partly thanks to the excellent Synaptic package update management.

After 10 years on Window$ I’m now migrating to Ubuntu. ’nuff said.

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fold this thread Ted Gregorius  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 4:19 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Running a clean install of Feisty Fawn here in my office for “Real Work” without any issues. I love Beryl and don’t know how I can live without the cube.

I upgraded my home system from Edgy to Feisty and other then an issue with the NVidia driver it’s been flawless.

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fold this thread CCacioppo  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 4:24 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Having been on U/Kubuntu 6.06/.10 and now 7.04, I echo this review. 6.06 is the most stable for me and is a ‘work-a-day’ distro. I have recently tried U/Kubuntu 7.04 on this same machine and found 2 installer anomalies which where show stoppers and watching the Desktop settings change/disappear when restarting the system.

There is also a shutdown bug which hangs and must be forcefully powered off to overcome. Dapper had (has) none of these

This release is more or less not suited for the newcomer.

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fold this thread EdGonz  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 4:25 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Wow, just because two applications don’t work as you expect, that now gives the OS the title “Unstable”?!

I’ve been using the latest release without any problems; yes, I do find the casual error message, but again…it’s rare. I don’t use the applications you’re using, but I think your review is weak and flawed.

Sure Ubuntu is not perfect, just like there isn’t one single Linux distro that’s perfect.

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fold this thread carolinason  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 5:05 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I also think Unstable is a misnomer in the title.

The client clearly experiences instability in the system, since he is a mobile client and the issue is related to hibernate and suspend and not the distribution as a whole. There are kernel issues with this as discussed by LT.

My 7.04 clean install runs without issue on my AMD 2300 home brewed system. Hibernate and Beryl work just fine.

I should mention I’ve seen many upgrade issues in the Ubuntu Forums.

You’d think the client coming from Debian SID would be a bit more robust in linux knowledge.

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fold this thread telcomguy  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 5:14 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I’m in the camp with the folks who haven’t had any problems with their upgrade. I use Windows at work and Linux at home and have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a perfect OS — or application. There are just too many hardware and software variables for any program to anticipate them all.

For instance, I tried installing Google Desktop on my new Windows laptop at work. It worked perfectly fine on my old laptop (same manufacturer, different model) running the same version of the OS. It simply would not install on the new machine. I contacted Google, we tried a couple of different things, and we both had to give up in the end.

I’ll take Linux, Ubuntu, and the Ubuntu community over Microsoft any day.

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fold this thread Hue  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 5:15 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

And yet another user here with 100% flawless install of 7.04. Even better than windows on dual boot AMD 64 X2 5200+/ ASUS Wifi deluxe with Nvidia 7950. My take on it…

o) Works better than SUSE Enterprise 10 (Server and Desktop) which themselves are impressive.

o) Beryl has never generated a problem and is amazing. Simply the most impressive workstation I’ve ever seen.

o) Box has been running Ubuntu for weeks without problems. Updates have been automatic and flawlessly applied on all installed packages not just the base operating system

o) Even the built-in (USB) wireless connected to home network flawlessly and works better than the Windows driver.

o) The ‘restricted’ nvidia driver and multimedia codecs installed themselves without intervention.

I agree with David, Davems’s ranting is not doing good for noobs, including myself – since this was my first experience with Ubuntu. Had I read this first, I may have been turned off. Personally, Ubuntu and SLED 10 are a real threat to traditional MS Windows. If most PC’s didn’t come with Windows pre-installed you might see more (general) users running Ubuntu.

In summary, I like this so much, it makes me want to give back to the Ubuntu community.

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fold this thread matthew  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 5:41 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

so for I get Ubuntu to work on HP Laptop,dv2310 wit little effort

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fold this thread Dave  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 5:41 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I liked the way you described your experiences with Feisty and I also enjoyed the responses. I thought I’d tell all some of my experiences.

First, the upgrade vs install approach: I ran computer support in a windows shop for almost 20 years and in that shop the only reliable machines were the UNIX and Linux ones. As for the 100 or so windows machines, my staff and I found that doing upgrades created tons of problems, especially after the arrival of Windows95 and the magical registry. The systems might seem to be fine after an upgrade, but invariably we ended up wiping the machines and doing clean installs within 6 months. Maybe that is why Microsoft allowed users with XP upgrade disks to erase the disk and do a clean install. I am not knocking Microsoft here, just relaying that if they are unable to create flawless upgrades, considering their multi-year span between releases, maybe clean installs are a safer way to go. I’ve been using Linux on my home computers (and even my office one) since the early 90s and have always found it safer to just do a clean install.

Second, the OpenOffice/MS Office upgrade: At the office I also discovered that Powerpoint users who moved to a newer version found that the newer version corrupted their old version. They had created it in Office97 and it worked in Office2000 but corrupted in Office XP, so they ended up recreating these presentations. Bummer.

Third, what flavor of Linux: I have installed and used PCLinuxOS on grandkids’ machines, but sadly the last version (2007) had stability issues, so I have ended up wiping and installing Feisty, since I don’t plan on spending my time constantly fixing their computers. The one house has both an Edgy and a Feisy machine, so I will be curious whether problems appear — so far, so good. In defense of PCLinux, certainly the friendliest front end for a Windows user, I installed it on my PII 512 MB laptop and it ran fine, even though the docs said it was designed for a PIII minimum chip. I have Feisty on my laptop now and it seems to be fine.

Finally, issues with Feisty: My problem has been with printing to a USB hp deskjet. The forums described a workaround (that allows me to print) but it’s more of a kludge than I would prefer.

Now if you take my comments (yeah, right) and enough cash, you can purchase your favorite beverage at your favorite establishment, although it will be probably cheaper if you leave my comments behind.

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fold this thread Bubba Smalls  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 5:54 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Beryl, Compiz – Even Shuttleworth said it’s beta, and sees it becomming more stable. Your nocking apps compatability, and not the actual system with defaults installed.
check dis out:


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fold this thread david  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 7:57 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Let’s hope Feisty’s problems don’t appear on the pre-loaded machines Dell is selling. Since Ubuntu has been selected, for whatever reason, to carry the banner for all Linux, I only hope that Dell and Ubuntu have worked out the gliches.

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fold this thread icethenet  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 8:23 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Nice Try Microsoft Man

But we all know Ubuntu is stable, and well! just a great enough job done on the whole distribution, that even dell decided to make it it’s official Linux Distribution (not too shabby). Ubuntu has become the most popular desktop system because it is ultra stable and built with the security that the modern computer system needs so sudo that. Not to mention it is built on the most superior server technology Linux Distribution of Debian. Not to mention being able to run so apps with the greatest degree of success like Wine or VirtulBox or Xen or so many well included applications available right from the Application -> Add/Remove Software. So why would you want to post FUD. Because you are either working for MS or you are their biggest fan.

proof: You made a false statement and failed to prove it much like MS Does.

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fold this thread icethenet  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 8:37 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

One More thing before I leave.
I hear a lot of complaints about drivers for ATI and Nvidia.

Do you believe that to be the fault of Ubuntu or of ATI and Nvidia?

If you Guessed ATI and Nvidia you were correct.

As they are the manufactures and license holder of the those products. This only demonstrates there alliance to MS machine and there disregard for the open source community. Only lately have they been pressured to make more and better Linux drivers and they are screaming for open source developers to help them. So be patient or if you know about Open Source Drivers Go help. In the mean time for most of you the 3d effects will only be available to you who have newer cards capable of decoding the information sent to the driver. Seems to be like a 50 50 shot my ATI 6500 plays them well my ATI 700 gets no love. So Good luck but don’t be blaming Ubuntu for these short comings they rest directly in the hands of license holder that will not disclose the information nor give permission to the open source world to build there own drivers.

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fold this thread Hebi-kai  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 8:48 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I’m amazed at how many people HAVEN’T had problems. I have yet to do an upgrade in Ubuntu without having to do a clean install. Each time it errors out on me and f**ks up my installation.

Feisty is pretty good to me but I must say it’s not as good as my reliable but very boring XP install.

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fold this thread Drew Smith  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 9:03 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

What’s wrong with your computer? I’ve been running Feisty with Beryl every day at work without any (ANY) problems. Yeah, the ATI graphics card is kinda slow but, I’d still trade the productivity of a composite window manager.

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fold this thread Iain Gray  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 9:33 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Another in the “no probs” camp. I have used Linux since 1999, but had a years sabatical when I moved from dial up to broadband and could not get my Broadcom wireless NIC to work, tried Ubuntu from 6.06 upwards and it was not until Feisty that fwcutter and a download (automatically) of the new 4318 driver that it just worked. Beryl works like a dream and have yet to have a forced reboot other than a Kernel upgrade. XP is now a distant memory :)

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fold this thread Thomas (be)  Tuesday, 12 June 2007 o godz. 11:58 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Beryl is beta software. That’s why it’s disabled by default. If you don’t like it, just don’t enable it!

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fold this thread Jo  Wednesday, 13 June 2007 o godz. 12:45 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I read the article with interest. I have not yet managed to install any Ubuntu version on this machine, although they work ok as live OS. After four or five tries with Feisty (a Canonical cd, not a download) I gave up before I wiped something useful. I read the forums where others were having similar problems, decided not to bother and installed Xandros Desktop Standard which does everything I want (this was before the MS agreement which might have made me change my mind). I have Mandriva 2007 Spring One and XP on the same machine; the Mandriva doesn’t write to the Windows partitions out of the box, which is the difference between it and Xandros. This might be a peculiarity of the One cd version; Mandriva 2007 Free did but was hideously unstable on my box. It is also more unstable, but after several years of Mandrake I feel a certain familiarity; loyalty perhaps!
I think that anyone installing Ubuntu onto a clean disk, replacing a Windows or installing as a single boot on a new machine should escape the problems that put me off (even a beginner). In other situations those who have had no problems should be thankful because it certainly isn’t guaranteed!

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fold this thread Rider  Wednesday, 13 June 2007 o godz. 2:48 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Want something really stable?, get Debian.

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fold this thread Natasha  Friday, 15 June 2007 o godz. 3:33 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I upgraded to Feisty from Dapper and loved it – UNTIL about a week ago when I got my first crash. No blue screen of death – this is a black & grey screen of death. Never before happened on Ubuntu, and now it’s happened another 4-5 times! I thought it was Firefox using all my CPU/memory, so I switched to Epiphany (low cpu/mem usage) for a while – all good, until last night, when I left it alone for 5 min, my comp(laptop) started to heat up again. Checked cpu/mem usage and “init” + “approp” were the culprits. A minute later, and I got the blk/grey screen of death. Still trying to figure out how to fix this problem…

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fold this thread Jack  Friday, 15 June 2007 o godz. 10:11 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I have run the last 5 versions of ubuntu and Feisty is the most buggy by far, followed by edgy… I have had problems with swaps, kernel and initramfs, not the least important parts of the system. I completely agree that a slower, but more thorough upgrade cycle would be much better. I also do not use linux as a toy. I need it to get my work done. That’s why I still use Dapper in 2 places and I am considering to change to Debian.

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fold this thread W  Saturday, 16 June 2007 o godz. 12:16 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

This article surprised me; my upgrade from Edgy to Feisty went without a hitch. In fact, it’s only Dapper and Feisty that I could confirm sound and wireless working fine. Plus, only Edgy and Feisty have an xorg-ati driver which works on my Xpress 200M. The trick to get NetworkManager working, I found, was to remove *all* manual configuration from /etc/network/interfaces for all devices (except lo) – e.g.

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp

Yes, it’s fiddly, and should be easier to do, but the solution works and is logical. I’m now running KDE and have no stability problems whatsoever (except occasionally Amarok, but I’m gutting it as soon as I find an audio player that doesn’t suck).

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fold this thread Scott  Sunday, 17 June 2007 o godz. 11:48 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Yeah I don’t get all the Linux fan boys. I’ve been using Linux since 1996, Debian Linux since 2000, and Windows since 1993.

I’m a programmer and I like to fix stuff. However, maybe it’s my age but I just want a computer to work now, I don’t want to spend 10 years trying to get something like g++ installed. I want to type “[sudo] apt-get install g++” and have it actually install it.

Q: Ever wonder why all the Ubuntu/Linux reviews are about installing it and not actually using it?

A: Because very few people use it for real work because it hampers their productivity.

I demand a Linux distro that doesn’t require 2 days of frustration just to get the littlest thing work.

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fold this thread Tim  Tuesday, 19 June 2007 o godz. 11:00 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I just bought my wife a Macintosh notebook. After a couple of hours of playing with it, I became embarrassed to be still using XP on my desktop. Ubuntu is not OS X, but it’s a lot closer than XP (or Vista). I’ve been fiddling with Debian and then Ubuntu in the last few years, but after doing a clean install of 7.04 on an old machine, I was very impressed, so I made it the boot OS on my main computer. With XP running in VMWare Server, I am very happy … until tonight, when I discovered that the Open Office package in 7.04 is badly broken and the bug reports go back for two months, with no corrected package (Debian shares the problem, apparently).
Apart from that, 7.04 is excellent. It is stable for me, although suspend and hibernation don’t work (which I think is a problem with the NVidia drivers).

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fold this thread Zhinker  Wednesday, 20 June 2007 o godz. 11:26 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I like their regular 6 month release cycle. But I agree stability should be top priority; I’d say they should solve it by simply not including unstable updates to the release. It’s better to simply postpone the problematic updates till the next release than to delay the whole release instead. Work will still get done on the same schedule while people will still get their dependable release cycles.

Alternatively, we could just extend the release cycles to 9 or 12 months.

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fold this thread Netwalker  Monday, 2 July 2007 o godz. 7:43 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

After beating my head against the laptop suspend/resume problem I gave up and went back to Edgy. Everything worked there. Will wait for the fall release.

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fold this thread RZ  Thursday, 12 July 2007 o godz. 3:49 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I like Ubuntu Feisty 7.04, specifically the 64-bit flavor, which does quite well in response and performance. Using the raved (loved & hated) automatix2 for easy setup of swiftfox, I hate that my ATI 200M sucks so bad that I can’t get framerates I need. Otherwise, customization, functionality, and overall fun (sadly addicted to Super Tux) I would say that as a new ubuntu (not new to linux) it is much better then other comperable distros. I do agree heavily that it has stability issues, but nothing I didn’t get in XP, or especially in vista. Man, I love being able to do work in Ubuntu and reboot into windows for the whole 2 games I play in windows. Any how, sorry for the fan boy sounding opinion, but I honestly enjoy this distro, which I have never been able to say about any other.

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fold this thread SteveP  Friday, 20 July 2007 o godz. 8:31 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Well, I have installed both Debian and Ubuntu. I been using Debian since 2000 and I am using it on a old Compaq Presario 700 laptop. I remember having to do quite a bit of fiddling to get my linksys pcmcia wireless card to work. It would work with ndiswrapper but would not enable wep (or any other wifi encryption). In the end I finally got acx to work. Well that computer has finally coming to the end of it’s days. I just got a new HP dv9310 as a multi-event gift. It has Vista on it and it is just horrible. With Ubuntu having such a buzz I decided to give it a shot. The amd64 cd booted up fine and the install went without a hitch. The machine would not boot though. After tweaking the boot params, it finally would boot. Not a real noobie fixable thing. There were several items of contention outlined below:

powernowd wouldn’t work (no cpu stepping) – fixed with kernel param

display 1280×800 instead of 1440×900 – only fixed with proprietary nVidia driver.

built-in broadcom wireless card didn’t work – fixed with ndiswrapper

built-in ricoh web cam didn’t work- fixed with r5u870 driver

spurious disabling of irq7 (would kill the webcam (once it was working)) – more kernel boot param tweaking

beryl black windows rendering – xorg tweaking.

suspend problems – nvidia problem xorg tweaking to fix.

no codeces! had to install win32 codeces and mplayer32(and support) to watch a rented dvd.

no java in firefox – there is no 64bit plug-in for Sun’s java. I hear I can install the 32bit version of firefox and java to get it to work.

The above issues were not noob fixes, granted this is a newer machine and maybe my expectation of the install was a little too high, but a noob would expect many of the above things to work out of the box.

Despite the short comings above, which I’ve fixed all but the java, once everything is said and done, it has been very stable. The suspend problem caused me to have to reboot a couple times. Not a problem now. It crashed on me once since. I made a change to a Beryl setting using the Beryl setting manager and it locked up. I’ve been using this computer just about every day since I got at the beginning of June with most of the issues I had now resolved. There were many things that worked well straight away. Most notable were cups and samba. I am looking forward to many years of service out of this laptop as it’s Debian parent has provided me good service over the past years with other machines. I am expecting the same from Ubuntu 7.04.

One last note: I just recently installed kubuntu(6.10) on my wifes computer amdk7 900Mhz, 512Mb because the ibm deskstar hard drive died an extreme sudden death. Kubuntu installed and ran without any issue (on a new hard drive of course).

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fold this thread Eemil Lagerspetz  Thursday, 13 September 2007 o godz. 8:45 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I agree, the 64 system gives us some significant trouble since the world is still mostly 32-bit. 64-bit systems support in Ubuntu could be improved a lot. The boot thing is a very serious one.
I hear there are similar problems with Windows 64-bit versions (drivers not working/installing, crashes etc).
As a half-joke, would a “noob” know what 64 is and install it instead of the i386 version?

fold this thread damaltor  Saturday, 3 May 2008 o godz. 3:22 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

i am using feisty since it was new, and never had a single problem with it… compiz and every other things work fine.

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fold this thread conscience  Friday, 19 April 2013 o godz. 2:27 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

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