Ubuntu Linux vs Windows Vista: The Desktop Battle

[ Sunday, 2 December 2007, michuk ]


It may be a brave opinion but I predict that Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista are going to be the two operating systems that will take over the largest chunk of the desktop OS market during the next couple of years. This comparison is based on my experience with both systems during the last couple of weeks on two different computers.

Author: Borys Musielak

For the purpose of this article I am going to focus on Gutsy Gibbon, a recently released version of Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista Business Edition which is about one year old. This is to avoid confusion that we are talking about some different animals, since both Ubuntu and Vista provide a number of alternative versions differing in features and target user (although I’m completely lost when it comes to say what the reason for different Vista version is).

Also I would like to mention that this is by no means a full comparison of these two selected systems. I chose to focus on things that seem to have the biggest importance for the end user (like me) who just starts to use a new operating system. These things include: general look and feel, software and hardware support, stability and maturity. At the end I’m going to cover some of the advanced features, too.

So, here we are…

General look and feel

My first impression when I saw Windows Vista installed in a computer store was “wow, this looks pretty modern”. My first impression when I saw Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon was “wow, it looks pretty simple”. No offense here — default desktops of both systems are nice and elegant. They are however very different. Microsoft guys made a bold decision to reorganize the old good Windows look and feel. Old childish-looking desktop has been replaced with a more business-friendly one. Also the behavior of the main desktop elements changed a bit. This has a positive refreshing effect but at the same time confuses whole lot of people used to the traditional way “Start” menu and desktop works (fortunately you can still revert to “traditional” behavior in the preferences) . Gutsy Gibbon, on the other hand, did not introduce many changes in the main interface. It still comes with GNOME, precisely version 2.20 of this environment, and except for minor polish in details, it looks pretty similar to the first Ubuntu system — Warthy Warthdog — released 3 years ago, in 2004. This is not an accusation at all — to the contrary — I believe that this is what most of the people prefer and expect.

Windows Vista desktop Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon desktop
Default desktop side-by-side
Windows Vista large Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon large
Custom desktop with large icons in Vista and Gutsy
Windows Vista menu Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon menu
Main menu side-by-side

After a first look at the desktop I started exploring the user interface of both. In Vista I easily added a few widgets to my desktop: a clock, a weather widget and sticky-notes. I also played with different ways the icons can be displayed on the desktop. I got used to the new looks pretty fast and I have to say I like it way better than the looks of Windows XP which was always the first thing I used to change when I was forced to work with that OS. In Vista I chose to stick with the default selection in most cases and I felt good with it.

To be precise, I like the default look & feel of Ubuntu as well. apart for being just clear and elegant, it is very consistent as well. In Vista I had big trouble finding certain options or configuring stuff. Things just were not located in places I would expect them to be. The huge start menu does not make it easier, either. I have a feeling that apps and folders are placed pretty randomly around it. No such problem in Ubuntu. In order to look for files and folders, there is a “Places” menu. For configuration there is “System”. In “Applications” I find only the programs, grouped nicely into meaningful categories, as opposite to company names.

But this all is pretty subjective and you can find it the other way around. It probably mainly depends on your habits and personal preferences.

Score for looks 1:1

Windows Vista computer Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon computer
“Computer” folder in Vista and Gutsy
Windows Vista home Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon home
“Home” folders compared

Getting additional software

So I had some fun with the default desktop already, now I want more fancy stuff to play with. This is where additional software come in place. In Ubuntu I launched the Synaptic Package Manager and selected tons of additional programs, such as Opera Browser (I like the choice), Psi (my Jabber client of choice),K3B (for burning CDs), Mozilla Thunderbird (for e-mail, I can’t stand Evolution), DigiKam (the best open-source simple image viewer and manipulating tool), and ubuntu-restricted-extras package which installed for me Java, additional fonts, multimedia codecs and Flash player for all browsers — something I hate to do manually. The whole process took me some 10 minutes and I had Ubuntu loaded with all my favorite apps. Nice job, Ubuntu!

In Vista it did not go all that nice. As there is no central repository of open-source apps, I had to manually install all of them browsing through different web pages and wasting time clicking the Next and Finish button a million times. I was all set after some 45 minutes. Still not bad. But I knew where to look for. Why isn’t there apt-get for Windows, yet? A reliable one? Bill only knows…

Ubuntu 2 — Vista 1. But game’s not over yet!

Windows Vista control Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon control
Control panel of Vista vs Ubuntu’s gnome-control-center

Hardware support

Both systems detected all my hardware without complaining. My wireless card worked. The screen resolution has been set properly. The sound was nice. No problems whatsoever. Issues started to come when I wanted to do some extra stuff.

I connected my Nokia phone to my laptop using USB cable. It had a similar effect on Vista and Ubuntu — in both cases it asked me whether I wanted to import my photos. Sure I did. Unfortunately only Vista allowed me to do so. In Ubuntu the phone disconnected after downloading 2 pictures. Unplug/plug back in trick did not happen to work. I still could not import my photos from a mobile. This sucked.

Then I wanted to turn off the computer for a while. I never really turn the computer off. I hate relaunching all the running apps. I hibernate it or suspend instead, depending on how much time I plan to be away. Hibernation (suspend to disk) worked perfectly in both systems. Vista only took faster to wake up ((which surprised me since it took longer to boot). Suspend to RAM aka “sleep” worked only on Windows, though. Ubuntu told me it had “issues”. I don’t care for them. It failed. It shouldn’t.

Before you start bashing me… My laptop is all Intel-based. Intel likes open-source and releases its drivers on open-source licenses. If not, it publishes the specs. My laptop should be fully supported in Linux. That’s what I would expect, at least. That’s why I’m not buying from NVidia or Lexmark. Still it failed to do things Vista had no problem with. I was not impressed.

I haven’t tried Bluetooth support and SD card readers, yet. But I suspect doing so would not change the overall view considerably.

Ubuntu 2 — Vista 2. The game starts anew.

Stability and maturity

I have only used both operating systems for only a few weeks on a daily basis. Thus it’s hard to produce some firm verdict which of them is more stable and mature. One should suspect Vista since it has been on the market for almost a year now while Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon has been just released. My observations are, however, of a different kind. Here are some random notes I’ve made while using both OSes:

  • Vista seemed to have a bad influence on some of the standard applications I tend to use. For instance, simple app like Notepad++ used to crash for unknown reasons (never had this effect in XP). What is even more strange, after crashing I could not start the application again. The reason was its process still residing in the system, even though there was just no application window anymore. After a while I got used to using the CTRL+ALT+DEL combination, searching for a zombie app and killing the process explicitly. Still, not a very nice thing to do that was…
  • Internet Explorer 7 hung up when I tried using a website with Java applet on it. There is not JRE installed in Vista by default.
  • Ubuntu, on the other hand didn’t really like Firefox. It crashed every now and then after loading it with the following add-ons: AdBlock Plus, All-in-ne Sidebar, Tab-Mix-Plus, Del.icio.us and Google Toolbar. Firefox with same add-ons worked fine on Vista.
  • Compiz and poor video cards is not a great duo. Compiz with poor video driver support is even worse. I stopped using it when it kept putting my system into amazingly strange states from which I could get out by hitting CTRL+ALT+Backspace (kills X) only.
  • Using suspend to disk or RAM is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you gonna get when it wakes up. Usually it’s poorly functioning video, networking or hotplug system. Restarting dbus often helps. Rebooting computer always helps. But why use suspend when you still need to reboot? Curiosity…
  • When Vista hangs up, reboot is required. When Gutsy hangs up, X restart is enough. Is this way better? No it isn’t. It shouldn’t crash in the first place!

So summing up, Vista and Gibbon are equally unstable, at least in my hands :P Perhaps Vista is a bit more random. Ubuntu just hangs up in well-defined situations (e.g. when I want it to suspend). Still no excuse. It may do better next time but for now…

It’s still 3 — 3 and we are two laps to go!

Robustness

OK, here I have to admit: Vista sucks. It takes 2 minutes to load on my Intel Core 2 Duo 1.2Ghz, 1GB RAM Toshiba laptop as opposed to something around 45 seconds for Gutsy Gibbon. Its user interface is slower too, the apps take longer to launch and the general feeling is a bit clumsy. I honestly can’t believe why this is the case since I couldn’t really notice many significant changes in functionality between Vista and XP. Still it runs like a turtle.

However, I have to admit that on a powerful moder 3Ghz, 4GB RAM desktop, Vista worked just wonderful and I could appreciate its fancy looks and nice graphics. Was it worth to sacrifice as many system resources only to get some additional bliss? Hello no.

Funny thing is that Ubuntu put a lot of similar windowing effects to Gibbon (thanks to setting Compiz the default window manager) without compromising on responsiveness.

Point for Ubuntu. It’s 3:2 for the Debian-derivative.

Flexibility, Advanced features

One of the main things I require from an operating system (and any program actually) is that it should bend to my needs, not vice-versa. I like to have the power to change any particular option I want but I don’t want to spend a lot of time looking for “tweak your OS” kind of programs on the Internet, analyze their effect on the general stability of my system and so on. Basically I want the OS to provide me with sensible defaults but not hide advanced features at the same time. I want to use them as well! As both Ubuntu and Vista target “Joe user” I knew I won’t find these systems perfectly adjusted to my needs just from the start. However, Ubuntu did a way better job in adjusting to my needs.

It’s about the features, idiot. Ubuntu — just like any other GNU/Linux distribution — give me tons of advanced features for free. Its powerful console enables me to perform tasks such as image resizing, file management, port forwarding, system monitoring, remote administration and tons of others relatively easy. Things for which in Windows I need to employ Cygwin (which is basically a UNIX emulator) or expensive third-party apps, in Ubuntu I have for free.

This is not all. Ubuntu gives me an incomparable level of configurability for my desktop needs as well. I can adjust my desktop to my needs almost to an infinite extent. I can choose a very basic desktop (like WindowMaker or Fluxbox) for maximum performance, I can opt for KDE for the configurability and features. I can employ a custom file manager, window manager or session manager, not relying on the default choices made by the distributor.

In general — I have the power to change. I have the freedom to change. Some people don’t like the choice. Some people even prefer not to be given any choice. Lot of people in Poland and Eastern Europe miss the communists since they gave no choice — everyone was equal. Equally poor and unprivileged. But people are different. They are not machines. I don’t want anybody to force me to behave in a certain way. Whether it is Google, Microsoft or Josef Stalin. Thus I choose the flexibility and choice, even though in some cases this may mean lower quality or fewer features. This is my choice. Yours may be different.

Point for Ubuntu. It’s 4:2 and it’s game over. Still remember that I’m biased.

Windows Vista polishlinux Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon polishlinux
Firefox running polishlinux.org in both systems

Profiles

So, to sum it up. Here are the profiles of Vista and Ubuntu users. Just find out which one is you :)

Vista user Ubuntu user
If you are new to computers or only used Windows XP or earlier before, you are a good candidate for a Vista user. You also need to have a very modern PC (if you purchased a new one during the last year, you are likely to be Vista-compatible) and easily adapt to changes since Vista really is a bit different than XP (and no, it’s not the lack of the “Start” button that is the hardest to accept :P ). If you are a bit more literate with computers that your auntie or if you have a bit older PC than a brand new Intel Core2Duo or if you are more demanding from your operating system than “it should just work”, go for Ubuntu. Before doing so, just make sure none of your key software is Windows-only, since fighting with Wine to make it run on GNU/Linux may be a terrifying experience for a newcomer.

Conclusions if any

As you can see both systems have their glitches but in the end both should work for you, as long you don’t try to “fix” too many things on your own. It’s always good to have a computer guru available as your first aid with the OS, especially at the beginning. Finally, in both cases make sure your hardware is supported. Both OSes are pretty new so not all the hardware (especially exotic WiFi adapters, TV cards and so) is supported, yet. If you don’t know how to check that, just buy a computer with operating system preinstalled. It’s easy these days to buy either a Vista or Ubuntu laptop or Desktop. Dell supports both of them, as one possible choice.

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175 Comments

fold this thread Miguel  Sunday, 2 December 2007 o godz. 8:27 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

Very brave, indeed!.

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fold this thread K Taylor  Thursday, 12 June 2008 o godz. 7:50 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --8

As a die hard W2K user (NT5 vs. NT5.1, meh why put up with WGA and all the extra hassles) who is also a network tech and ex machine language coder…

I was faced with all the “Requires Windows XP” messages that would start popping up on applications, games & drivers on my W2K load. Faced with an eventual upgrade to Vista x64 (no way I was going to use 32 bit if I was to upgrade, jump straight past XP and x32 to Vista x64 if I was to bite the bullet) for hundreds of dollars or complete liberty from purchasing my OS and facing the learning curve for a Linux distro, I first took a stab at a Linux Distro (cant beat the price!).

I was disgusted. I used to use UNIX in the 90s, so the command line architecture wasn’t at all foreign (albeit I’m quite rusty after 10 years!). Linux on the desktop is a joke.

Just getting a browser to work or installing the flash plugin was a nightmare. I was expecting a learning curve to customize my system and learn the ins and outs of a new OS but given what I heard from Linux hyper-advocates (and not being a particularly big fan of MSFT and Windows in the first place) I had expected that it would have been.. well… somewhat… true?

The distribution out of the box worked great. Provided all I wanted to do was run the tools that came with the distro. Once I got past that and had to actually reach out and do stuff the nightmare began. After 5 days on a spare laptop, I gave up. I was so disgusted that all these tales of hope and promise and milk and honey (and the end of Microsoft’s grip on the desktop) were absolute crap. Linux was a nightmare. Great if you love to tinker around perpetually over tiny little things and edit flat config files and command line build and compile quote “Linux” applications and features. Not so great if you want to get ANYTHING done at all. Like play an MP3. Or install Windows Media or RealPlayer support. Or Install Flash Player to watch Youtube.

So I went and tried out Vista x64, albeit reluctantly. I did it on my main machine, spending hours and hours backing up my old W2K system in the case the horror stories were true and I’d go running back to no-mans-land with my tail between my legs.

My experience was the opposite. I dont know what all of these problems people are having with Vista, but it must be with the x32 version or some wack cracked edition. I got Vista Ultimate x64 and I’ve never had an easier time setting the machine up. It did everything itself, and installed in record time, quicker even than the lighter footprinted W2K (arguably, probably faster than 98 did, although the hardware back then was pretty weak compared to my A64x2, so the comparison is debatable).

Running programs on the Vista x64 was like greased lightning. I’ve never desktop computed so fast. I was running W2K on my A64x2, so the hardware is comparable. Firefox or IE opening in under one tenth of a second? WOW. The security pop ups kind of got on my nerves for a while, but since they are only for Admin rights, once everything was installed I got to see it more like a regular user would.

The most modern and “killer” desktop friendly linux distros remind me of AmigaOS. Thats not an insult, I used to love my Amiga and if I could get my hands on one I’d get it and tinker with it just to feel that magic again (I’ve played with the emulator WinUAE to keep sharp on my UNIX commands from time to time and play old classic games). But that technology was 12 years ago!

Honestly, with MacOS and Vista x64, Linux on the desktop is doomed before it ever gets started. I get paid $49 per hour to tech networks and run arcane command line utilities and edit flat files. Why would I spend $4000 worth of my own time to set up my home PC computer, when I could drop $399, get a wicked OS, and spend the rest of the time drinking beer and playing games (which wouldn’t work on Linux anyway).

Linux had it’s chance to get on the desktop, that time was the 2003-2005 period, that was the sweet spot to get in before the Vista launch and grab hold of people with something fresh, new, free, and take the spring out of Microsoft’s Vista step when that day finally arrived. However that time is now long gone. Microsoft has worked the kinds out of Vista, and the MacOS seems to be winning over thoes who find Windows to be too complicated.

Linux on the desktop is in the worst possible space: free, but more complicated and frustrating than Windows, which is more complicated and frustrating than MacOS.

Even in the complex server environment, Windows is taking back ground with Server 2003 and 2008. Server 2000 was good but lacking on security and features.

Again, Linux has blown the gains that it has made. Apache, despite years of being the defacto best solution, still uses an arcane scripting configuration system. IIS had hopeless security problems in 2000 and NT4, but these are very much resolved in 2003 and later and it sports an easy to use GUI.

Linux will always be the most efficient, lowest cost to maintain OS for simple computers running simple repetitive tasks. Those kind of computers where you let them run, turn off the monitor and forget about them until the PSU dies. Linux has that market cornered and does it well. These visions of grandeur are over, the Window is passed. If you can’t sell me when I’m looking to buy in – with all my technical experience and personal nterest in learning technological things and tinkering with the OS, you wont have a hope in hell of selling the average Joe or Jane user who couldn’t care less, they just want it to work.

fold this thread Rob  Tuesday, 2 September 2008 o godz. 7:52 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

Ok,

Seriously, if you could not get Ubuntu to play an mp3 or browse a web-page, I am forced to conclude you are an absolute idiot. Seriously, I am afraid you might be really, really, stupid.

I love these “UNIX guys” from way back who can’t get it to work, but my Mom can.

Give me a break.

fold this thread Steve  Tuesday, 14 October 2008 o godz. 1:15 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

Look at his website, it’s an absolute joke. If that’s anything to go by it’s no wonder he couldn’t click his way through to web browsing MP3 playin goodness! My sister and my Mum can manage it for cryin out loud.

 
fold this thread taifunbrowser  Tuesday, 17 August 2010 o godz. 9:28 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

As fun as it is to bash the windows guy, he’s absolutely right that installing packages and such is really intimidating for first time users.

Some catch on to “Oh, I may have to occasionally have to do more than just double click to add application X to my computer”, but the rest will give up unless they get help from friends, etc.

Ubuntu does. not. have. java applet in-browser support, flash support, or a really good media player out-of-the-box. You have to figure out how to add all that standard stuff yourself.

Now, what’s with this backlash against making things easy!?

 
 
fold this thread Unconfined  Sunday, 4 January 2009 o godz. 3:02 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

“Apache, despite years of being the defacto best solution, still uses an arcane scripting configuration system. IIS had hopeless security problems in 2000 and NT4, but these are very much resolved in 2003 and later and it sports an easy to use GUI.”

Front-ends (like system-config-httpd or YaST) suggest you’re wrong. But no respectable sysadmin in their right mind would have a GUI on a server, and funny enough YaST provides this configurability on both a GUI and text-based UI. Before anyone says “but that isn’t the proper way to configure it!”, well nor is that the case with IIS – there are areas that can only be touched through the registry. Also, why is MS moving to eliminate the GUI from Windows Server?

By the way… Apache has had bad security flaws in the past, look as far back as NCSA HTTPd. It’s only because of good system security (filesystem permissions secure-by-default, least privilege access etc.) that it is considered more secure than IIS. It’s the system, not just the service.

“you wont have a hope in hell of selling the average Joe or Jane user who couldn’t care less, they just want it to work.”

Average Joe/Jane can’t install Windows, all their drivers and apps from scratch. Ubuntu makes that easy because all the basics are already installed when the system is. Want to word-process? With Windows you need to install MS Office, a separate product, with Ubuntu the office suite comes with the system. Before anyone says “but wait, Windows is preinstalled!”, so is Ubuntu on many different machines, so is Linpus and other GNU/Linux distributions.

Want to install a printer (HP Deskjet 940C) that has worked ever since Windows 3.1? You still need a driver CD to use it properly on Windows, but with Linux you plug it in and it works instantly.

Most “average joe” users don’t even upgrade their Windows OS without buying a new computer because:

1) Having to pay for the new OS when it is like paying 1/3 of the price of a new PC anyway is stupid.
2) It is such a pain and most of the older applications no longer work or have bugs.
3) Upgrading as opposed to a “Clean Install” often causes many unusual problems to arise

Most Ubuntu users on the other hand upgrade the moment a new release is out, or when they feel like it. This is because

1) It’s free – doesn’t cost any money and never will
2) it’s easy – click ‘Upgrade’ when you’re notified
3) it’s convenient – can be working while you upgrade, don’t even need to reboot after till it’s convenient for you

Now let us look at a common scenario affecting Windows users… Installing Anti-Virus Protection

A Windows user needs to browse to an Internet site, then download an installer or purchase a CD/DVD to get anti-virus protection. They then need to go through an installation wizard with an annoying load of unnecessary screens and reboot after.

On Ubuntu, a user selects the software from a list and clicks “Apply” then confirms their selection; it is then downloaded and installed automatically without requiring any further interaction – no reboot required as the kernel module for on-access scanning is loaded automatically and the service is started and gets to work.

Considering GNU/Linux has no in-the-wild viruses yet has easier access to anti-virus protection (that includes on-access scanning) than Windows.. says something.

“Linux will always be the most efficient, lowest cost to maintain OS for simple computers running simple repetitive tasks”

Simple computers which run simple tasks run OSes like QNX or MINIX, which can recover from faults without a reboot and without loss-of-service. Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Free/Open/NetBSD etc. on the other hand are not designed with this in mind and as much as people say “[name above OS] is great for [embedding|routers]” – it really isn’t.

 
 
fold this thread skrapasor  Friday, 25 July 2008 o godz. 3:24 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

Who honestly cares if the average Joe or Jane wants to install Linux? The average Joe is stupid and ignorant, and doesn’t care about being brainwashed by Microsoft.

 
 
fold this thread greg  Sunday, 2 December 2007 o godz. 9:41 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --3

My advise is stay away from both of them. Vista is very buggy in fact I just dumped it from a brand new laptop and replaced it with a quality Linux distro. And it would probably be wise to look around at all the other distros out there before being led to anything with gnome. Ignore the hype and do your own research first. Remember microsoft got their market share because they had the most money not because they were in any way innovative. Same with Ubuntu.

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fold this thread Te Kairangi  Tuesday, 4 December 2007 o godz. 9:35 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

That’s just rubbish. Whatever Microsoft’s faults are, they got where they are by offering a slightly better user experience than anything else on the market at the time.
DOS was slicker and better marketed than CP/M, and early Windows was flashy enough for the ‘average’ user and cheaper for PC companies to install than OS/2. For better or for worse, MS ended up creating a standard. While UNIX was always the techies choice it didn’t actually do what most people wanted. Apple has always been closed hardware wise, expensive and niche oriented until lately. VMS was just crap unless you were trying to manage a traffic light system.
Without MS we’d be in pretty poor shape. Ubuntu are doing a Microsoft – they’re using the linux leadership vacuum to try and set a de facto standard – it looks like they might succeed. Good on them!

fold this thread Michał Słaby  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 12:51 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

You are just plain wrong in everything you said and I’m going to point it out step by step.

1. “They are offering a slightly better user experience than anything else on the market at the time”. When PC users used to sit in front of their black (DOS) or blue (Norton Commander) screens, Apple users could enjoy their System 7/8 in millions of colours and high resolution graphics.

2. “DOS was slicker (…) than CP/M”. But you failed to mention it was worse than Concurrent-86 or DR-DOS.

3. “MS ended up creating a standard”. What is this standard full name? What standardizing organization has approved this standard?

4. “Unix was always the techies choice”. MacOS X users must be very surprised with this statement.

5. “Without MS we’d be in pretty poor shape”. Without MS we’d be running our shiny PCs with OS/2 or BeOS or Macs with OS X. I reckon Linux/FLOSS people would be less motivated to create a viable alternative to proprietary OSes.

6 “[Ubuntu] – thay’re using the linux leadership vacuum to try and set a de facto standard”. I am afraid it’s totally the opposite. Ubuntu follows LSB standard, sticks to FreeDesktop guidelines, complies with Gnome HIG. Even replacing init with startup was made without violating well established Unix foundations.

fold this thread michuk  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 1:14 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +4

I reckon Linux/FLOSS people would be less motivated to create a viable alternative to proprietary OSes.

I think you are entirely wrong here. Linux was created because MINIX was a proprietary. It was supposed to be a free replacement for MINIX kernel.
GNU was created to be a free replacement for UNIX tools in general.
Microsoft didn’t have the OS monopoly at that time.

If OSX, Be/OS or OS/2 was free as in freedom, sure it would make the things different, though.

 
fold this thread FedoraUser  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 4:26 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

“When PC users used to sit in front of their black (DOS) or blue (Norton Commander) screens, Apple users could enjoy their System 7/8 in millions of colours and high resolution graphics.”

You’re saying that when MS had *nothing* but DOS, that Mac had 24bit color??? I recall Mac having a monochrome (or was it 4bit color?).

“Unix was always the techies choice”. MacOS X users must be very surprised with this statement.

No they aren’t because most don’t have a clue about it being UNIX, rather they are running a proprietary closed GUI frontend OVER unix. I could potentially have a stripped unix and run a fully functional XP in a VM session and hide it from the user. “Unix” is not what makes OSX what it is, it is purely the closed peices.

“[Ubuntu] – thay’re using the linux leadership vacuum to try and set a de facto standard”. I am afraid it’s totally the opposite. Ubuntu follows LSB standard, sticks to FreeDesktop guidelines, complies with Gnome HIG. Even replacing init with startup was made without violating well established Unix foundations.

Unfortunately nothing you say addresses the statement. By “defacto” standard they are not talking about technical specs and guidelines that make no sense to the end user. Rather the concept of having people recognize linux at some usable standard. In that people can say something like “at least as good as Ubuntu”, because all the other distro’s *really* suck. And yes there is wayyyyy too much anarchy and disorder to truly represent linux to an end user without mentioning things like kernel version and HIG standards.

 
fold this thread Rich  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 11:13 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

“You’re saying that when MS had *nothing* but DOS, that Mac had 24bit color??? I recall Mac having a monochrome (or was it 4bit color?).”

You recall wrongly. We could also point to the Amiga, the ST, the Archimedes. If that doesn’t suit you, we could aim higher and point to Irix, Solaris, and so on.

You think my timing’s a bit off? Windows was released? Of course it was, but nobody was using it. Everything still ran much better under DOS.

 
fold this thread FedoraUser  Friday, 7 December 2007 o godz. 2:39 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

The best Macs even in 1995 did not come standard with 24bit (ie. “millions of colours and high resolution graphics”). They more or less had the same capacity of X86-Pc’s which had graphics. Even in 1994 Windows 3.1/NT3.x was in *widespread* use. (Gaming was in DOS, but that has nothing to do with your argument)

Amiga/ST had true 24 bit color??? or are you talking about palettes? Wasn’t Archimedes basically a VGA?

“Irix, Solaris, and so on” are NOT Macs and in NO way whatsoever an end user desktop systems!

I won’t disagree that Mac had several competitive advantages, however you are just making stuff up if you think that primarily DOS was used in the days of System 7 and 8.

 
 
fold this thread buck  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 6:17 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +10

You’re both wrong. Microsoft achieved the market share they have by creating non-competitive contracts. They never had the technological lead.

 
fold this thread Napoleon1  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 10:21 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

To understand how Microsoft came to become dominant in operating systems, it is important to keep in mind the roles played early on by the then dominant pc computer magazines, especially in dethroning IBM’s OS/2.

During those early years, the editors and columnists of pc computer magazines acted as if they existed solely for the purpose of promoting Microsoft (and all its products) and bashing rival systems. No doubt, this was partially furthered by the emerging practice of receiving free products from Microsoft but the main reason I suspect for their then slavish adherence to anything Microsoft was the perception that Microsoft was a tiny (geeky) upstart battling giant established companies like IBM who didn’t cater to them by providing free products or involvement.

In this heady atmosphere, Microsoft, Bill Gates, Balmer, etc., simply became “the boys from Redmond” while IBM, especially its early product TopView and later OS/2, became the beast. In particular, OS/2 which was then a revolutionary and outstanding product was criticized heavily by the pc computer magazines for being a memory hog, requiring new drivers, software modifications, and a new learning curve. Later, of course, all of these features became commonplace aspects of Windows 95, 98, ME, XP, etc.

But during this early phase of backing the so-called young, geeky Microsoft upstarts against established IBM, the writers of these pc computer magazines were oblivious to how much money Microsoft and Bill Gates were making, even compared to IBM. Only after it became apparent to them later that Gates and Microsoft were billionaires tens of times over, while they (the writers at the magazines) remained relatively poor (indeed, quite a number of these magazines simply ceased to exist), did the writers abandon ship, reverse course, and began their current practice of being equally critical of Microsoft, and recognizing Microsoft as the heavy and not the tiny upstart they had promoted.

Finally, it took the battle with Netscape for most pc computer magazine writers to realize finally that Microsoft was not really the innovator it claimed to be but rather the growing monopolist that was adopting unfair trade practices to crush both tiny upstarts and established companies. But by then, the realization was too late for the pc computer magazines writers meanwhile accomplished, for free, the promotional work that Microsoft could not then have achieved alone.
Napoleon1

fold this thread enaut  Friday, 11 April 2008 o godz. 8:42 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I think a very good and entertaining introduction is the Film called “Pirates of Silicon Valey”

 
 
 
 
fold this thread Darrell  Sunday, 2 December 2007 o godz. 11:15 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Personally, I think Knoppix is much better than Ubuntu, thought Kubuntu is okay as it has KDE.

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fold this thread random person  Wednesday, 5 March 2008 o godz. 6:54 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

The best KDE ever is SimplyMepis. It is based off debian with code from ubuntu. it’s good. period.

 
 
fold this thread Johan  Sunday, 2 December 2007 o godz. 11:29 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

I agree with Greg, kind of anyway. I’m a Gnome-guy myself, but Ubuntu is not a very stable OS, compared to the likes of big daddy Debian.

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fold this thread Arnold L. Johnson  Monday, 3 December 2007 o godz. 5:12 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +5

Well folks, seems to me that Ubuntu on a laptop is a bit shaky, but on my desktop it’s solid as a rock. I use Xubuntu with the Xfce desktop, it is lean and snappy compared to KDE and Gnome which are more kind of MS Windows like. Firefox works great on my system. Compiz is one of those “I can do that too” kind of responses to Vista’s memory neuralizer marketing (for MIB fans). The “flashy thingy” blinds you to all the changes and challenges you will have to deal with in Vista. The Aero desktop does not compare to the virtual desktops which Linux has had for years now. Even as Linux progresses, it is still a “kit”, which can be fashioned to meet your preferences. With MS “you will be assimilated”.

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fold this thread Leon  Monday, 3 December 2007 o godz. 8:46 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +5

you all say that ubuntu is a bad choice,
but from my personal experience it’s a very newbie friendly dist.
i never really got debian to work, gentoo, gave up before i started and so on. off course a lot have changed doing they years. like better hardware support. but still I find many newcomers downloading ubuntu, because it’s user friendly and does not mainly rely on console usage.

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fold this thread eldarion  Monday, 3 December 2007 o godz. 9:11 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --4

“Remember microsoft got their market share because they had the most money not because they were in any way innovative. Same with Ubuntu.”

I completely agree with you. Ubuntu isn’t that good, its more pub that functionality.

My choice for beginers would be Mandriva 2008 or OpenSUSE. Note that i’m not using none of these, i’m using Arch, but between all distros that i have tested, my choice for a user friendly distro would be Mandriva.

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fold this thread Jaro Cooke  Sunday, 9 December 2007 o godz. 6:19 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

I also agree that like Microsoft, Ubuntu is growing primarily because of marketing and money.

However, I believe this is a good thing. What GNU/Linux needs most is greater market share, then all the issues that people have will for the most part be fixed (hardware support, support for third-party software, etc…). This greater market share can only come from marketing, something Ubuntu seems to understand. So hopefully Ubuntu can drive Linux adoption until it has a first-class standing with hardware manufacturers and software vendors.

Then, and this is the good part, because Ubuntu is built using open source software, there will be no lock-in and people can just use the Linux that best meets their needs, without having to battle to get their Wireless card, Suspend, etc… working.

And then, there shall be peace on Earth!!!…..

All joking aside I actually use Ubuntu because for me, it simplifies all the obvious tasks and still gives me a nice flexible CLI for more complicated tasks, which I find are actually easier through a command line than through a “wizard” type thingy.

 
fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 1:15 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

My only criticism comes from personal experience. My aunt installed OpenSUSE on her PC. They bought books on Linux, specifically OpenSUSE, tried setting up lots of the software a person needs on a day to day basis and for the most part were working in the terminal for most of that time. They gave it around a year and a half, more than most people for an OS they don’t like, but switched back to Windows. I installed Ubuntu 8.10 a month ago, everything they spent so long looking up and trying to set up is already set up. I’ve used the terminal a few times, mostly to set up an antivirus program to protect my Windows friends when I help them with papers or help edit photos. I’ve used it comfortably for a month, even to the point where XP is just taking up space on my harddrive, soon to be replaced completely with Ubuntu. Most of the tweaks I’ve done to my system weren’t necessary, just play. Most of the programs I’ve downloaded and installed, I could have lived without. What took my Aunt so long to set up in OpenSUSE was the basics, those are accounted for in spades.

 
 
fold this thread Tel  Tuesday, 4 December 2007 o godz. 11:09 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +7

Microsoft’s approach to Vista has been as simplistic as a steamroller — slam the market hard with advertising and bully the OEMs by taking away their XP licenses. Despite their weight, Dell stood up to them and customers continue to demand XP. Vista has been widely rejected even by diehard Microsoft supporters and Microsoft’s hard-sell methodology is not bringing either customer or OEMs onside.

There will come a day when Microsoft have to give their customers what the customers want, not what Microsoft has decided is good for them. With a Linux desktop you can choose: Fedora, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Novell and others. They are all mature and viable, and each is configurable — so you get the system you want.

In all honesty, what the existing Microsoft customers want is a stable XP system, with bugs fixed, secure and leave the user interface alone. There’s no reason to change the user interface, no reason to randomly mess with stuff. The trouble is that Microsoft’s business model is based around forcing people to upgrade and keep buying new systems when they don’t want to.

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fold this thread Bryan  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 4:45 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +5

Tel I pretty much agree with you. I’ve seen this argument ever since I got into computers ten years ago. Linux is better because blah blah blah… Windows is better because blah blah blah. In my opinion no OS is the best, because it all depends on preferences and needs. All OS’s have there quirks and problems none of them are perfect. I’m MCSA and I have supported Windows systems since I started in the IT field. I’ve found that you can do almost anything in Windows that you can do in Linux. Especially recently with more support for open source programs on windows and also because Microsoft pretty much tries to copy many of the features in Linux.
However, they don’t set it that way by default, it usually requires a reg edit or resource tool kit etc. Over the years I have always tried to dabble with one Linux flavor or another, but I would quickly switch back after spending hours trying to accomplish simple tasks like adding MP3 support or installing a wireless card. That’s just ridiculous, there is no reason for me to be that much of a geek; even if I was successful. Recently I was tasked with deploying Office 2007 to ~300 workstations at my job. I figured I would use a Microsoft product (Active Directory) to deploy another Microsoft (Office 2007). Well, after three weeks of being half successful with random and unpredictable results (which meant I had to manually install it on every machine due to time constraints) I decided then to give Linux another try. So that night I downloaded and installed Ubuntu and I have been very happy since. With Ubuntu I was able to easily install software, hardware, and make configuration changes. I installed xsane and it worked with scanner and my printer already came with Linux drivers. Additionally, I was able to get my dual monitor setup working with envy. My system is about 4 years old but I currently see no reason buy another. I even loaded Vista on it weeks prior to installing Ubuntu but uninstalled after two weeks since it didn’t support may scanner and HP wasn’t planning on releasing new drivers for it since it was too old (2years old). Also, I was never impressed by the Vista interface, it looks more like an interface for one of the vtech computer toys or a cheap rip off of the MacOSX interface. While I’m sure I’ll run into hardware support issues on Ubuntu later on; that’s ok. Because the only way to get more hardware support for Linux is to build the market share of people using Linux. I’m already starting to see more and more companies offering Linux support in some fashion. As far as stabilty goes, well that’s always going to be sorta hard to measure. There are many different ways to determine that and like I said earlier no OS is perfect they will all crash at some point (as long as humans are programming anyway). I think Ubuntu has what it takes to actually get people to switch to Linux. They see the big picture and understand what most people want in a OS; not just catering to the geeks that never leave their house and jerk off to code compiling. The bottom line is since both OS’s are not perfect then go with Linux. Why… because it’s FREE and the support is about the same. That’s where Microsoft loses my vote, if they expect me to pay for software that may have the same problems that free software has, if not worse, they’re crazy. Then on top of that pay for support to fix their already broken crap. If I’m going to pay nearly $400 for an OS it better be dam near perfect out of the box; not some OS patched together like a quilt. If I wanted that then I’ll download a flavor of Linux for FREE, and if I want, pay for support. I do some computer repair work on the side and I will try to switch users to Ubuntu whenever I can; it’s time for a change.

 
 
fold this thread Bill Goldberg  Tuesday, 4 December 2007 o godz. 2:41 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

The reason gutsy is better than vista is simpel.

- fast
- highly tweakable (system and desktop)
- good hardware support
- synaptic/add remove
- no viruses/malware
- free
- free software
- baffles people if they use your pc. They don’t know such good looking operating systems exists, and thought aero is the best a computer can do. :p

i’m running gutsy with wii-black gtk2 theme, curved awn dock black, black and white icons, conky, … And it’s stunningly beautiful.

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fold this thread G2D2  Tuesday, 4 December 2007 o godz. 5:07 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

They don’t call PCLInuxOS “the distro hopper stopper” for no reason. Check it out: http://www.pclinuxos.com/

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fold this thread Joe  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 2:59 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

I tried this distro, after using ubuntu for a while. It was nice and the things that worked by default were very stable. Unfortunately I needed to ppp via a cell phone over usb and searched high and low for the information on how to do it in this distro after about 4 hours I finally got it working. Then I wanted to be able to set up a printer to create pdf files and had the same experience searching and searching and it taking hours to find. The reason I switched back to ubuntu for all 4 of the machines on my network is that as of yet I have not found anything I needed to do that I could not find clear and concise instructions and information on how to do it just by doing a quick google search containing the word ubuntu and either gutsy or feisty and what the problem was. Additionally there was something about the packages in the pclos package manager having to be custom packaged for pclos and not just .deb files.

I have enjoyed my ubuntu systems. I managed to convert my sister in Miami, and my son in Lake City to use ubuntu over MS. After having to constantly clean the malware off their MS systems I suggested they try it instead. Guess what, they are both still delighted that their computers just work, and we have regular video conferences on skype now that their pc’s arent such dogs.

I think the ubuntu development team has the right idea, and is on the right track. I look forward to hardy heron and if you have not tried ubuntu yet you should.

 
 
fold this thread LoveMonster  Tuesday, 4 December 2007 o godz. 9:17 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

XP Service Pack 3 is what the Windows World Needs.

As far as Linux goes, as long as there are 100s of distributions, it is hard for any one to rise to the top. I personally prefer RedHat derivatives but on any Linux the hardware support (drivers especially) are still lacking. Try going to your local store and picking up a scanner/copier/printer that works WELL on Linux. Still not there after all these years. Still better as a server than a desktop OS. If you want *NIX based desktop OS that is compatible with hardware, Apple has the closest viable option.

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fold this thread KS  Tuesday, 4 December 2007 o godz. 11:44 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

first thing: these are not the “default desktops”!!!

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fold this thread michuk  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 12:49 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Yes they are. At least my default desktops, the ones I got from Toshiba with Vista preinstalled and a ccustom Ubuntu install.

 
 
fold this thread shankao  Tuesday, 4 December 2007 o godz. 11:47 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

As a side note, there is at least an apt-get like program available for Windows: win-get (and opensource)

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fold this thread michuk  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:22 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Only that it doesn’t work :)
There are windows-like installers for Linux as well. Autopackage for instance. But… it doesn’t work :)
Or perhaphs it even works but noone uses it. Same with win-get.

 
 
fold this thread Robert  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 12:53 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

I will go out on a limb and say “It ain’t gonna happen any time soon.”

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fold this thread Andy  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 2:35 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +3

I think you missed one big big point here. At first Vista is probably good in all aspects but one thing that once you say it out, Windows fans will never be able to say ONE single word: Disk Fragmentation.

For years Windows never fix the problem of disk fragmentation and even you can equip with Diskeeper (or the built-in diskeeper lite, which is the default windows defragmentor), you never get back the newly formatted HD performance even you clean up all temporary files, uninstall all unnecessary programs and defrag it. I know it’s about the FS problem but hey, where’s the new WinFS they talk about it for so long and never seen it in action? does it actually help? Trying using Windows with 20 apps installed and running for 1 month, you will definitely want to re-format and refresh your windows.

Linux? no way, install JFS, ReiserFS or even just EXT3 with partial journaling, I never experience slow down no matter how many apps I install for so many days!!

Argue with me, windows fans. I am not linux geek, I still use windows daily but for this I just can’t stand it! For others, Vista …well…XP is doing a good job. Vista, I guess they have to fix some bugs first…c’mon, I almost finished my dinner for windows to just load the updates after the reboots (12 minutes guys)!!!! My machine is the HP 2610CA with AMD Turion X2 TL-58, 2GB RAM. Hey I know it’s not rocket speed but I don’t think it needs 12 minutes to load the updates, 5 minutes to shutdown. I am talking about a new fresh systems with all HP games, anti-virus and all other comes with trial-wares uninstalled and even better, I defragged!! Still took me so much time to just startup and shutdown?! This is not quite acceptable.

What’s your comment? Maybe you have something that can help me because I may miss something that can optimize Vista’s performance but so far I have no clue after tuning the following stuff:

1. Turn off the gadgets
2. Tune down to basic windows theme and classic folder options and task menu.
3. Turn off “Index this drive for faster search”
4. Set fix amount page file (1.5x of my current memory)
5. Install diskeeper pro with advanced options selected and defrag partition weekly and defrag the MBR once.
6. Turn off additional services even I install OOo and Apache (removing them from startup and regedit).
7. Install all windows patches.
8. Turn off Firewall, ACL (Vista) and Windows Auto-update.
9. Turn off notifications on #8.

So tell me what else I can do to tune up my Vista’s performance?

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fold this thread John  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 2:40 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Fonts don’t look good in the Linux screenshots; not too bad in the Vista ones.

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fold this thread zxc  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 12:30 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Try FreeSans font

 
fold this thread Rich  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 11:51 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Find the Liberation fonts.

 
 
fold this thread pKp  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 3:52 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Nice article. Good to have a different point of view on things ^^

A little thing, though : when (not if ;) you have crashed your computer, it is WAY more easy to get support on Ubuntu, provided that you aren’t an illiterate, whiny moron. The community built around it is, in my opinion, one of the greatest assets of this system.

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fold this thread michuk  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:24 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --2

When people crash their computers they call support. It’s easier to get support for Vista than Ubuntu. And cheaper in most cases. Sad but true.

fold this thread Valisme  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 7:25 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

As long as you have Internet access (which is pretty easy today – your neighbour has it, if not some internet shops will probably be nearby), you have one of the biggest support available – for free. The Ubuntu community is legendary for their friendlyness and cooperativeness. That distinguishes Ubuntu a lot from Windows and many Linux distributions.

 
fold this thread Jaro Cooke  Tuesday, 11 December 2007 o godz. 12:49 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

That’s not true.

In my life I have made one Windows related support call and many postings on Ubuntu forums. The Windows support cost me £5, didn’t help and convinced me never to use it again. The Ubuntu forums help me through almost every difficulty I’ve had on Ubuntu, and it was FREE.

This is my experience, now granted the Ubuntu experience is much more recent, but the Windows support call was in the early days of Windows XP.

 
 
 
fold this thread Charlie  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 4:02 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Er… your scoring is a bit broke. You went from 3-3 to 3-2… the final score should have been 5-3, not 4-2.

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fold this thread michuk  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:25 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Whatever :)

 
 
fold this thread Luis Medina  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 4:53 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

I’m a ubuntu user and recently vista come out i give a try for the new OS from redmond. ! wek later was simple removed the “Are you shure want to run this?” freak me on and the stupid wall about you do not have a antivirus a program want to conecto to internet… message pisme off when a try to browse whit fiere fox… That was all and get fully ubuntu on all my systems: office and hoem.

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fold this thread Jeff  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 4:55 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --2

Clueless. I think you might need a bit more experience before you come to these conclusions. It sounds more like you just want to join the me-to bandwagon and state your geekness to the world. This is actually beginning to remind me of the AOL users of the mid 90s who discovered the internet, only in this case the internet has been substituted for a Unix like OS.

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fold this thread nv  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 5:08 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --3

I would stay away from both but I can’t;I have to use Vista for preparation of my MCP ( Microsoft Certified Professionsl) and MCSA and Ubuntu Gutsy for future Linux certification I’m about to take for better customer support.
Somehow shit quickly becomes standard but always remains – shit!!!
My favorite OS-es are Debian Etch, Slackware 12 and Vector Linux
(Zenwalk is very close) and PCLinuxOS 2007 is unbeatable on my Pentium II class systems and with which KDE (actually Krusader) I’m most comfortable and productive.
I can’t care less about Vista disfunctional and distracting “eye-candy” nor for Ubuntu (GNOME) simplicity (GUI for retarded).

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fold this thread Gordon  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 8:28 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --5

Wishful thinking at its best. Windows is a consumer OS. Linux is half-assed collection of pieces that were never meant to work together as a desktop system.

Bottom line is: Linux belongs in servers. Linux on the desktop is a joke. Hey, at least you admit you’re biased.

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fold this thread komandor gruzeł  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 9:16 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

This what you call “joke” earns me a lot of money being ran on desktop(s) LOL :-)

fold this thread Mr. Pink  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 6:51 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

If that’s true then linux is crap.

fold this thread Sanjay  Tuesday, 8 January 2008 o godz. 12:52 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Man have u tried any Linux distribution. Otherwise you won’t write comments like that. I am using linux since 7 years. And whenever I have faced a problem in linux I came to know about a new thing, which is abstract in windows platforms. I removed the problems from the root. I have always got the help from online communities and posts. Man just try once and you will never come back to windows since then.

Linux is a freedom.

Windows is just for the children to play.

 
 
 
fold this thread Chad  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 4:28 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Have you actually given Linux a try before making these statements? I’ve used Linux on my desktop for over 6 years now and have never looked back. There’s not a single thing that I need to do that I can’t do with Ubuntu using the UI (not the console).

 
fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 1:54 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

What distro did you use to come to that conclusion? What programs exactly weren’t made to be put together in order to make a fully functional desktop? In what ways does the desktop of either Gnome or KDE fall short where Windows excels? From my own personal experience, it took me a day to forget how “user friendly” I thought XP was and realize what ease of use actually meant. I don’t perform a daily routine for maintaining my system anymore. I’ve used Ubuntu 8.10 for a month, nothing’s slowed down, I’ve installed a fairly large number of programs and I’ve even dabbled with WINE. The worst experience I had with it was in Flash implementation, but as I’ve read about this, studied up on the subject, even looked at the Adobe website, it’s Adobe that has the problem, not Linux and, also from what I’ve read, Gnash is being developed so that Adobe can drag its heels as much as it feels like. In other words, Windows is patchwork. It might be unibody construction to use a car term, but when the body is made of paper, that doesn’t do much good. Linux might just be a bunch of parts, but each part was developed to fill a need and is continually being developed. Linux as an easy to use, fully functional desktop exists. There are many distros, many choices. The only thing missing is a fully blind, unbiased comparison between the different OS’s to see who is really not ready for the desktop. My vote for removal to refine the software is Windows. Linux is doing just fine.

 
 
fold this thread Gordon  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 8:32 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --8

By the way… nice job making Vista screenshots look bad in comparison by taking them as low quality jpegs. That shows neatly how distorted your perception of reality is.

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fold this thread michuk  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:27 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

I noticed that after publishing. Seems like the default for Vista are lower quality than defailt for Ubuntu. No secret plan here, mate.

 
fold this thread Mike  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:27 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

Gordon,

How is Linux on the desktop a joke? What I consider a joke is being bombarded by countless pop-ups asking permission for mundane tasks. Needing a popup blocker to protect me from my own OS is a joke. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been a Windows user my whole life, in fact, I work for Microsoft, yet the truth stands. Vista is a joke, and there are a large number of employees at MS who still use XP.

fold this thread Gordon  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 1:21 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

How come sudo and having to enter a password for admin privileges is the greatest thing since sliced bread on Linux but is annoying when Vista implements it?

UAC serves that same purpose: to prompt for elevation when administrator rights are needed. And I still have to see an annoying UAC prompt in my daily work that was not justified. Do you actually use the computer of just toy with it all day?

fold this thread Valisme  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 7:34 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Because in Linux, you are only asked for the password when its really necessary. Not the alert box inflation of Vista, which only leads to users switching it off and get a unsecure system.

Linux does not need to protect you from your own programs and has a strict division between user and admin space. And if you use only programs from the tens of thousands in the package sources of your distribution of choice, your chance of getting malware tends towards 0%.

 
fold this thread Gordon  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 8:48 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Have you actually used Vista or you are just repeating gossip and unfounded rumors? I’ve heard people say the most incredible things about UAC. Some even claim UAC asks for permission when changing desktop background. Well, what they say is just not true, and so I would like you yo tell me one example where UAC prompts are not justified.

Let me explain why UAC is even better than the traditional UNIX model:
1) It’s actually a bit more secure. On UNIX, when you’re using a root account everything you run does so with admin privileges. On the other hand, UAC lets you run everything with normal privileges even if you’re using an admin account, elevating privileges only for those tasks or applications that actually need them. That’s why starting an X session as root is a very bad idea, while on Vista logging in as an administrator it’s no problem.

2) It integrates better with the system, at least for now. For example, on Linux you cannot copy a file or folder directly into a restricted folder. You get a ‘permission denied’ message, and that’s it, forcing you to open your file manager as root. On Vista, UAC asks for permission and the user just has to enter the admin’s password. No need to do anything more.

 
fold this thread Valisme  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:02 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

1) We are talking about Ubuntu and sudo, not about working as root the whole time. In Ubuntu, you work as a user and enter your password for administrative actions. That concept was part of Linux from the beginning, although one has the option to work as root permanently. Now, after more than a decade, Microsoft recognized the advantages of this approach and used it for Vista. Late enough. Don’t sell this as an remarkable new or unique feature of Vista.

2) This behavior protects the system from users who don’t know what they are doing. Copying into a system folder? Ah, my password… done. In Ubuntu, you shouldn’t have to do anything in the system folders, so you don’t get access to them so easily. But you can use any commands with sudo in the Terminal – if you know what you are doing.

 
fold this thread Gordon  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:14 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

Let me answer first to the second point

2) You should not usually have anything to do on system folders, but sometimes it’s convenient. In Ubuntu, you might want to copy some app into /usr/local. Similarly, on Vista you might like to unzip some little app that does not come with an installer to Program Files folder so all users can have access to it. In these use cases, UAC it’s certainly not groundbreaking but it sure is more convenient, and that’s all I’ve claimed: UAC is better integrated. You’ve just made up excuses to hide this fact.

1) I never said UAC was new, or unique, in fact, it was long overdue in Windows-land and MS is clearly to blame for taking so long in coming up with it. All I’ve said it’s that UAC does its job, prevents common users from running with elevated privileges all the time which is a very good thing, and it’s not annoying at all unless you’re just messing with your computer all the time instead of working with it. I’m glad at least this time you didn’t deny this.

 
fold this thread Valisme  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 12:43 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

What’s the problem with sudo cp ? Or, as I said before, any other command with sudo? You seem just to see only the “Windows way” of system usage, thus saying the Vista way is “more integrated”. The Linux way of doing things is (at least) as integrated as the UAC is into Vista – especially since it’s grown and proved over years (decades if you include UNIX as its roots). I am merely arguing against this statement of yours, because you make the mistake many Windows users do, seeing its way the only, “real”, “better” way of doing things, judgin different approaches regularily and principally as inferior.

You asked in your first post, why user control in Linux is commonly seen as secure, while UAC has the reputation of being annoying. While I can’t give you a clear answer to that, my own experience with Windows since 3.11 is that Microsoft has the bad habit to annoy his users (=customers), forcing on them its own vision of usability, or hiding as much options as possible from them. So I’m just not surprised that many people (including some friends of mine) find MS’ long overdue approach to separation of user and admin just that – annoying. Once again.

One of the advantages of OpenSource software. Most of it was made because of need, not to make profit of it.

I think we don’t come together on this matter. But as long as either of us is happy with his OS, we don’t really need to. ;)

 
fold this thread Gordon  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 10:59 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

Nothing is wrong with sudo cp… as long as the user does not mind working on a console. Since we’re talking about desktop battle here, I think most users would.

I think people have not given UAC (or Vista) a fair chance. And I think you’re right when you say many Windows users are not used to admin user separation of privileges paradigm. Maybe that’s why I personally find UAC so natural, given that I’ve worked with Linux systems for years (and I still do, but not on the desktop ;) )

 
fold this thread Unconfined  Sunday, 4 January 2009 o godz. 3:22 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Why Vista’s UAC is truly a waste of time and actually makes the system LESS secure.

Windows
——-

Use your system as a limited/restricted user then when you need admin privileges {Right Click -> Run As -> Enter Admin Credentials -> OK} on your favourite file manager or application.

With UAC a user can by mistake give a malicious application admin privileges as the system responds to what software plans to do – not necessarily what the user is explicitly granting with full knowledge beforehand.

Without UAC and a limited account a user has to explicitly run an application as administrator before it can ever have administrative rights.

GNU/Linux
———

The info below is for a newbie. There are many better ways depending on the setup. This gives root access graphically, and the ability to execute further apps as root.

GNOME: gksu nautilus
KDE: Choose “File Manager (Super User)” from the K menu

How hard is that?

 
 
 
 
fold this thread Dennis Krul  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:13 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +5

As always, which OS suits you best really depends on the workload and your budget.

Even your granny could use Ubuntu, if all they wanted to do was surf the web, check their mail and write a letter.

Gamers might prefer Vista, because games are usually not made available for Linux.

Musicians and (graphics) artists might prefer Vista (although if they are real pro’s they would use a Mac ;) .

I’m system engineer and I am far more productive on Linux than anything else. I never have to worry about malware, upgrading software packages individually, downloading drivers, and so on. That doesn’t mean I would recommend it to everybody.

Also, even if I wanted to run Vista I don’t think I’d want to spend lots of €€ on new hardware when it offers me nothing new regarding functionality, increase of productivity or speed.

But as usual, your mileage might vary. One thing is for sure: If you’re still using XP you’re on a dead path and sooner or later you will have to decide what you’ll be using next.

You might as well try Ubuntu. I’m ofcourse biased, but I find it to be the least stressful computing environment available today. You not only save money by not having to buy a Vista license, you get tons of useful programs with it for free. You’ll never have to spend a € on software again! Nor will you have to pirate it. It simply comes with the package.

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fold this thread Zeropath  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 12:11 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Hi,

if you’re wondering why Fiefox doesn’t like Ubuntu a lot, just take a look at the addons you installed.

The Google addon deserves further scrutiny as it ‘sometimes’ renders Firefox unstable. Perhaps a removal and a test could point this out clearer. Google was primarily focused on developing a toolbar for Windows. As far as one can see, it has only been ported to Linux, not written for Linux.

As to your driver problem with the Intel drivers, did you make sure that your Ubuntu uses the correct Intel driver ? If not, this would cause a lot of hardship. The problem again is not Ubuntu related, but third party related.

Not having apt-get under Windows ? Nice question, but is it really serious ?

It would mean a complete makeover of the Windows development cycles, extensive testing, and so on …

The problems you have with Ubuntu are real and troublesome, but I’d like to point out that you should take into account that Ubuntu has no business with Google or Intels code, so you might prefer to aim your arrows at them; not Ubuntu.

Furthermore Gutsy Gibbon (v. 7.10) cannot be regarded as a stable distribution, it is a testing distribution and will lead to a better and more stable version 8.04 (?).

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fold this thread Ehem.  Tuesday, 8 January 2008 o godz. 8:14 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Why should Ubuntu have to worry about Intel and Google? Because people use this stuff, and not just the hardcore. The biggest computer noob in the world will have to do a Google search sometime in their life. Intel makes their stuff known and so it should be pretty easy to implement tech to make it work; besides, driver issues will be a huge deal. So Ubuntu is the target in this case. If they want to bill themselves as the newbie distro, that’s all it needs.

What Linux needs to be known is simple. Wired magazine does a great job at this; in the Geeklopedia (or whatever they called it) they put Ubuntu as a little blurb and why it’s worth using. As we go into a world where the hip is techy but different, Ubuntu’s philosophy will create publicity itself as the computer tech norm goes up.

When people talk about Linux ever, they have to rant about how the “newb” would react to it. Here’s the deal: the newb discussed in this kind of thing doesn’t give a carp about Linux. They want to check their myspace pages, read email, and do a Google seach every once in a while. They don’t care how long it takes; computers are magical things that the nerds mess with. While the definition of what one does with a computer is evolving (iPods and cell phones demand much more of a user than any computer user could do a decade ago) for now, discussing the year of the Linux isn’t getting us anywhere. Let’s just make sure we’re ready when it hits.

Personally, I like Fedora more than Ubuntu, but I recognize its reasons and why it’s worth using. I wouldn’t be in the Linux world without it. Windows is okay if you have a good installation (like me, who aquired a used styetm from a college), but if you’re without, I discovered when I tried to get xvid video on my mother’s laptop, it’s much harder than anyone realizes.

Lastly in my collection of rants, Vista must be congradulated for a few things. First off, the push for general upgrades is fantastic, and making Vista a feature filled memory hog will make the computer industry much more profitable in the next few years. It demands a good graphics card for an excellent experience; this will help the gaming industry. Even if Microsoft makes bloated pieces of carp, that doesn’t mean it won’t help anybody. I won’t use Vista, but that doesn’t mean I would feel the benfits of cheaper systems for everyone.

 
 
fold this thread Yall've 2 MuchTime  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 12:36 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Why so frustrated?

1. Mac Leopard – where’s the light? literaly black screen.
2. Ubuntu 7.10 – one external monitor and a black laptop LCD
3. Vista doesn’t install on this machine Dell Lat. x1

After installing the much antispated 7.10 with Compiz Fusion, I just had to try and set up a 2nd monitor.

Result: No chance of getting the Dell’s LCD to work again (wrong settings I know), so I am imobilized and tied to BenQ with no compiz fusion running.

Give me back my working post-installation settings. Where is the button? Mac, why did I downgrade to Leopard?

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fold this thread me4oslav  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 12:43 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

oh,come on,the vista is very buggy,doesn’t not support compiz,needs a antivirus,require a powerfull machine,and many many more.The ubuntu in the other hand is cleaner,more simple,smaller,lighter and supports compiz-fusion.I am using ubuntu with both KDE and Gnome and i am pretty hapy.Here are screenshots from my pc,that will make the vista look like a game compared to any linux:
http://store4.data.bg/mechoslav/desktopamiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.png
http://store4.data.bg/mechoslav/Compizut.png
http://store4.data.bg/mechoslav/Compiz.png

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fold this thread LS  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 1:00 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

“Still better as a server than a desktop OS. If you want *NIX based desktop OS that is compatible with hardware, Apple has the closest viable option”
Baloney! Tried Ubuntu lately?
Easiest install ever.

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fold this thread tracyanne  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 1:58 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

I find that Mandriva Linux is better than both Ubuntu and Vista, given that Mandriva tends to support more hardware “out of the box” than either. And while one is fiddling around manually editing config files and running sudo in the command line with Ubuntu, Mandriva has a nice friendly GUI for doing all that. When there is a choice of Proprietary drivers and OSS driver Mandriva simply pops up a small window and asked the question “Do you want to use the Proprietary f=driver” nad you click on the “Yes” or the “No” button.

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fold this thread Ehem.  Tuesday, 8 January 2008 o godz. 8:17 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Use Ubuntu. Everything you just listed Ubuntu has as well.

 
 
fold this thread Lightu  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 2:04 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Now seriously… If there was a linux on the desktop, it should be a comercial one, that way it get all the support ala windows.

The problem is that thats a little hard, and even the buntu guys want a relatively free desktop os without anything propietary besides drivers.

I seriously dislike ubuntu, they modify tons of stuff. Anything based on Slackware should be more around ideal for a desktop OS, but even so, Linux was never forthe desktop. It was made by hackers, for hackers, its an uphill battle to change the target audience. If not, ask Steve Jobs..

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fold this thread Paul  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 2:05 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --3

No Easy Development tools. The development tools for linux sorely lack. Mac has XCode, Windows has VS2008 now. Linux has… vim. I know about mono, and mono is always behind.

Its really about developers.. where they going to spend their time, right now ms offers the best tools for third party customers, followed very very closely behind by Apple.

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fold this thread snowx  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 4:47 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

Linux has Glade for native gui programs, NetBeans, Eclipse, Anjuta, Kdevelop, etc.

 
 
fold this thread Linux User  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 2:07 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

I use both Ubuntu & Windows. I would love to be able to dump Windows, but I can’t because of the apps. I think it would help Linux to become more popular if there were one solid version of the OS working well with good hardware support, but then work on getting more quality apps working in Linux. I don’t care about pretty desktops, but everyone around me uses MS Office, and OpenOffice.org just can’t match it, especially in their DB; and it is taking years for them to improve it. I’m glad I’ll be able to enjoy in OOo some of the features MS has had for years in Access during my retirement, but I need the features & tools now, not 30 years from now. Same with accounting software, educational software, etc. Linux needs more apps, not more eye candy!

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fold this thread Edmond Dantès  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 2:28 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

This analysis starts off by treating Ubuntu desktop and Vista as potential equals. With the popularity of notebooks in the PC market, nothing could be further from the truth. Notebook PCs come with odd features and software tied together by the manufactures. It is a knot almost impossible to undo even by expert users. The fact is that 99% of the new machines are “designed” for Vista. Even downgrading to XP implies in a mad chase for drivers and giving up on the software packaged with the system.

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fold this thread Alex  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 5:54 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

its funny that you give Vista +1 for it’s apps actually working, like on the USB test, but Ubuntu wins because..why? I wonder if you like to share camera photos how long you would be able to use Ubuntu? Also, your laptop configuration is below Vista recommended (it’s a resource hog, no doubt) but still does not make this comparison fair. btw, how does Ubuntu handle open source apps that are not in the aptget list? do I need to click next..next :) ?

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fold this thread Neville  Wednesday, 12 December 2007 o godz. 12:07 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

For your information, software that is not in the repositories, seriously, requires two clicks of the mouse to install in K/Ubuntu (This may differ for people that have their environment set to double-clicking ;) ). Once to open the package manager, the next to allow it to collect any dependencies it may requires, and install it. Next, next, next… is pretty much non-existent here, apart from some software that specifically requires user input. :)

 
fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 2:18 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

For most apps, as long as there’s a .deb package made, it’s easier than installing a .exe package. You double click it and the installer program handles the rest. There’s never been a “click next…next” screen that I’ve come across. That being said, when the program doesn’t have a .deb file created, the installation takes a bit more know-how or at least a decent google search for instructions.

 
 
fold this thread PhilBo  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 6:23 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

I have had several issues that completely stopped me from having a functional system in Linux. It isn’t all roses. Most of these comparisons are soooooo slanted about how easy the setup is for newer distros. They never crash. They are perfect.

How about two different distros that wouldn’t load X after the kernel changed (and updated automatically) and now the kenel modual for the nVidia drivers didn’t work. I have no issue digging into those issues and resolving them. But to the standard computer user, the computer would be sent to the curb.

Easier install? Have you ever installed Vista? It’s got the fewest options of all installs that I have ever performed. Upgrade or new? Where to put it? Time zone? 22 minutes later…I have a Vista desktop. Ubuntu even has what, 5 steps?

I know that other already posted this, but I found it very funny that people say that Vista askes for permission all the time, but when I get into Linux, I am always entering my SU password to get stuff done as well. Pot calling the kettle black?

I really like Linux. I love the speed it gives over the Windoze platform. But the Linux community must really step back and see things as the really are, not from a simple fan boy point of view, and then address things from that perspective if they really want to move the platform further in acceptability and market acceptance.

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fold this thread Bryan  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 2:19 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I support the “market” on a daily bases and the idiots practically have a seizer when they try to do anything in Windows.
So if Windows is soooo friggin’ user friendly and these retards are fumbling all over them selfs I’m don’t know if the problem is really Linux.

 
fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 2:40 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

1 month ago I’d never used Linux, the most I’d done is watched while my aunt tried to set up OpenSUSE on her PC using the terminal over and over and over again. Thought that’s how it had to be with Linux. Of course, since I’m cheap, I decided that since XP was about to be null, I’d give Ubuntu a shot. I burned the CD then got cold feet for a few days. Finally installed it and after the first week, I haven’t booted into XP since. Ubuntu works well and the learning curve is mainly just figuring out that instead of doing a google search, I check synaptic manager for programs. Instead of defragging my harddrive nightly just to keep my PC running smoothly, I leave it up. Instead of running malware detectors and antivirus programs and defraggers and cleaning the cache constantly just to keep a decent operational computer, I just have a decent, operational computer. I believe you when you say you had a bad experience, my aunt went back to Windows after trying OpenSUSE, but so far, my experience after a month using Ubuntu has been a dream.

 
 
fold this thread Bill  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 7:19 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I’ve always loved the heated debates that follow biased comparisons. A few points to address various postings above:

1 – First and foremost, “…It’s the Economy, Stupid…” Remember that saying? It’s all about the MONEY. Plain and simple – It’s BUSINESS. Microsoft has Market Share Clout. Vendors chase Windows, Linux chase vendors.

2 – Look at what’s happening in the tech world…Specifically, a strong surge towards open standards and open source. Again, it’s my opinion that money will win here as well. I’m not saying that open standards will be “bought.” What I’m saying is that with companies (e.g., Google and Oracle) standing firm behind open standards, global economy dictate direction.

3 – Too many distributions from which to choose? Please! I love choice! I believe all the different flavors of Linux are what make Linux Awesome. Windows and Mac fail miserably in this department.

4 – Lastly, unless you orchestrate a true, side-by-side comparison of specific implementations, of a specific scenario, you’ll always end up with a subjective report. Every OS has their advocates. And they each will be able to point to specific strengths as to why their OS is superior. Heck, you don’t even have to leave the Linux community to witness a good, heated distro bashing.

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fold this thread Daniel  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 9:10 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

I would just like to point out that Vista is also very expensive. Ubuntu is offered for free. And you can alter it and/or create your own custom distro from it if you like. It’s a bit hard to complain about something that is free isn’t it? oh yes, and community support if free as well. Vista support is very expensive.

People have complained about having hardware probs under Ubuntu. I have had equal number of hardware problems with both and when I am paying for one, I find that unacceptable. (and yes they were meant to be ‘Vista compatible’) Just ask my old man about the HP ‘Vista supported’ machine that he has. HP said his problems are with drivers and the MS are saying its Hardware …!? worth the license $$$ ? So I convinced him to try Ubuntu and guess what … it works! YAY!

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fold this thread tracyanne  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:10 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Personally I don’t find either Ubuntu or Vista all that usable. The GNOME desktop that Ubuntu comes with is horrible, and you have to “sudo” in the command line to actually get anything useful done. Vista is just a resource hog that won’t run worth a fart on any of the hardware I can afford.

On the other hand there are several excellent Linux distributions that beat both hands down.

Mandriva 2008.0, is one such, it’s available in no cost versions (well near no cost, you do have to download and burn them to disk) and commercial versions, if you want commercial support.

In addition Mandriva runs on a much wider range of hardware than either Ubuntu or Vista, including WiFi cards.

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fold this thread tracyanne  Wednesday, 5 December 2007 o godz. 10:24 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

Easier install? Have you ever installed Vista? It’s got the fewest options of all installs that I have ever performed. Upgrade or new? Where to put it? Time zone? 22 minutes later…I have a Vista desktop. Ubuntu even has what, 5 steps?

Ubuntu may not be as good as Mandriva, but there is a world of difference between the 22 Minutes to install Vista and the 40 minutes it takes to install Ubuntu.

With Vista, after 22 minutes you have a very basic, in terms of what applications are available, operating system (yes it has all those flashy things, if you have hardware capable of running it).

With Ubuntu, after 40 minutes you have an operating system (with all the flashy bits, on almost any modern hardware – I’ve run the compriz cube on an old ASUS L1400 with integrated Intel video), plus you have ALL the applications from office productivity to image editing to video and audio ripping to CD/DVD burning. In other words you are up and running after 40 minutes, with a fully functioning system.

With Vista, as with XP, there is still several hours worth of work installing the necessary applications to do what the Ubuntu (or other Linux user is already doing immediately after the 5 step 40 minute install.

So no Vista is not a quicker install, because you still don’t have a usable system after that 22 minutes, whereas with Ubuntu, and all other Linuxes, you do.

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fold this thread iss  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 12:51 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

I would use Ubuntu if I could get it to use my USB modem for broadband without me spending hours trying to get it to work!!

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fold this thread Shafin  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 1:38 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Actually,on ubuntu,you can even start working before you install,and in that way,you’ll only lose the restart time to installation.

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fold this thread John Wilson  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 3:50 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Admittedly Vista Home (take your pick distro) quickly installs to near useless state with basically a launch pad for new installs of actualy applications. Vista Ultimate takes considerably longer to get to the same state, incidentally.

To comment on one major issue with UAC vs various installers in Linux is this. It took about 8 hours to install Adobe CS 3 Master Edition on Vista what with all the UAC prompts, for Photoshop I stopped after an even dozen of the bloody things. In Mandriva or SUSE or, even, Ubuntu, for each installation session (please note the word session here) I give the root password exactly once. Same for updates. We won’t go into UAC nightmares for updates here. Nor endless restarts of the OS as well for large packages like CS3.

And yes, Vista has, well is getting really, well known apps such as the above. Lots don’t work anymore, though they are slowly getting to work.

Vista has another…ahhhh..feature. It is painfully slow while it’s desktop search app winds up and indexes things. And, it goes on for days that way, including three finger salutes when the entire system grinds to a halt.

I could go on. Outside of CNET’s Vista apologist in chief, Ed Bott, everyone seems to know Vista has serious problems.

Now, for Ubuntu. As has been noted it’s got almost as many problems installed on a laptop as Vista has anywhere. It is stable on a desktop, incidentally. And it is a fairly capable newbie distro though default installs are quite limited in scope and capability.

While Mandriva or OpenSUSE are far more powerful and far more newbie friendly in many way is, for now, beside the point. On a desktop Ubuntu is stable, usable and, to the extremely limited extent that GNOME allows, accessible.

Where Ubuntu and Vista meet, though, is the brain dead desktop. Both Vista and GNOME require constant retreats to the command line to do things that are done simply in the GUI in both KDE and OSX. Other GTK based desktops are as difficult to configure, XFCE, for example, though in XFCE’s case I’m guessing that’s by design.

All of that said, the major reason Ubuntu no longer has a place on my computers, same with Fedora/RedHat, OpenSUSE (Novell) is GNOME. Heck, folks, if I wanted a totally brain dead desktop I’d be using Windows as my main OS rather than Linux. (In my case, Mandriva KDE mostly due to limitations to PCLinuxOS and it’s use of the very annoying and over hyped apt-get.)

Of course, most of this is personal preferences as are most of the comments here other than some of the more obvious fan boy trolls on both sides of the Windows – Linux debate.

To be honest, for 99% of daily computing uses of 90% of computer usesrs it’s a saw off. Linux with OpenOffice.org or KOffice can do anything the overwhelmingly vast majority of MS Office users do. The GIMP does most everything most casual Photoshop users do. And so on.

The differences are that with Linux all this comes with the distro and with the default installations. Oh yeah, and no extra charge.

If you want newbie friendly with vast hardware and wifi support you can’t beat Mandriva. If you need a Linux that runs rock solid on laptops, again, Mandriva with second place to OpenSUSE, though calling that newbie friendly is stretching things a whole lot. Ubuntu doesn’t enter into it. Though on a desktop Ubuntu is a great newbie distro if you ignore Mandriva’s presence or prefer PCLinuxOS.

After that, it’s all personal taste and preferences. I have mine, you have yours. As long as it works, everyone is happy.

All I am really saying is that as long as Ubuntu is GNOME centric with all the configuration issues, or lack thereof, it has and, it’s laughable file manager (worse than Vista’s btw), it’s not suitable for any but the most raw newbie and not anything to grow with. It will get you started nicely until you find that you need a file manager like Konqueror! :-)

ttfn

John

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fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 3:02 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Haven’t tried Kubuntu, but I’m pretty sure that would fit your needs for a KDE desktop. Might be worth a shot. I’d love to know if the newest Ubuntu works better on your laptop as I haven’t read any other comments about difficulties.

 
 
fold this thread Penguin  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 6:12 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

(although I’m completely lost when it comes to say what the reason for different Vista version is)

Can’t remember where I read about this recently, but one of the differences between Vista business and the consumer editions (home basic, premium) is the home editions contain more drm than the business version, other than the differences in networking that the business version has enhanced features (no limitations on number of machines to connect to, ability to connect and work with the MS directory server, etc.)

It was revealed that one way to defeat drm was by using Vista business and using multiple images of the OS through virtual tools such as vmware or other virtualization tools.

It’s been 6 or 7 years since I first assembled computers, attended install fests and experimented with different distros. I recently found myself with a dead computer due what I later figured out was bad memory. So I pulled the hard drives and installed them in an older web server that had been pulled from service some months earlier when it had been hacked into through ssh and a vulnerability in a daemon and turned into an irc bot among other uses. In attempting to use the old web server as a temporary desktop, I found myself booting into gnome instead of my preferred KDE. Having used KDE since the early days, I found Gnome a bit intolerable. The worst part was that whatever I did to the session manager or other configuration changes, I couldn’t get it to boot KDE, even when KDE was finally an option again in the session manager and I selected it, it still booted Gnome.

After a number of changes and multiple reboots, I finally got it to boot into KDE. I think I probably have the same laptop as the author. I just received a Toshiba with a Turion 64 cpu and 1 GB of memory. It came with Vista (home) premium. I’ve installed Firefox and OO.org, but I still hate it. I’ve downloaded the latest knoppix CD and DVD images (and the Debian netinstall images) which I’ve burned, and will start using that tomorrow until I finally install either Kubuntu or plain Debian like I had on my desktops.

The more you use GNU/Linux, the less likely you’ll continue to use Vista business. Unless you need Vista Business at work for work required applications that won’t run on Ubuntu or with the help of wine. In that case, a dual boot setup or virtualization using vmware or other software might be an ideal solution. Stick with GNU/Linux, don’t give up on it. Before you know it you’ll be hooked.

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fold this thread difrost  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 3:54 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

The sollution is … good, old SLACKWARE LINUX :D

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fold this thread The Steven  Thursday, 6 December 2007 o godz. 10:56 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Let’s look at this with a little historical prespective…

1.) No one ever got fired for recomending IBM, that’s the way it was in the 1980-2000.

2.) People were more inclined to buy a computer IF they COULD run the same apps at home as they could at work.

3.) Once x86 computers were made by “everybody” all they needed was a compatible OS.

4.) PC-DOS = DR-DOS = MS-DOS, that’s how 90% of the users saw their OS, as long as the app didn’t crash every time, they didn’t care that they were not 100% compatible.

5.) Here’s the killer…. “Windows Runtime”… remember that? even if you were only running DOS 3.3, you could still have programs like Pagemaker running in a quasi-windows way.

6.) In 1991, how many *nix flavors were there? Where could the average user find them? Once Windows 3.1 came out, we only had to setup our sound cards, printers, and video cards once. Worse yet, Mac users only had to tell the system they were there.

In 1991 I told my employer (at the time) that drivers should be included in EPROM in the device itself. Imagine that, sound cards, video cards, printers, scanners, and other obscure things working as soon as you plug it in and turn it on! “Memory costs money” was the response.

So here I am, all these years later, I run XP pro in my laptop, and Linux in the rest. My daughter has Ubuntu in her computer, and hasn’t ever used windows (yet).

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fold this thread root  Friday, 7 December 2007 o godz. 3:40 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

ignorant ;(…
Guess you don’t do a lot with a computer, or should i say “specialized work”. Linux sucks for hardcore multimedia, which I know there are people who will argue against this; however I will never consider unfinished or beta programs to be usuable in a production environment. Period. Mac or Windows, not Linux. Yes I am aware of the software available. Yes I have tested the softwares extensively. No it is still nowhere near ready on linux. Don’t suppose it ever will be, because if you never finish something then it’s never complete. The “moving target” development model is flawed in this way – nothing is EVER complete.

On more personal note, IMO Ubuntu just looks nasty :S (Easily changed, I know, but puke coloured orangish-brown per default… MEH.)

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fold this thread Ehem.  Tuesday, 8 January 2008 o godz. 8:29 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

1) So it’s better to have programs that do stop in development? Which programs, even in Windows, do this? The only issue is that Linux is still early yet in terms of programs compared to the rest, but really. I know of no program that can definitively say that they are done developing (unless they just gave up: different story entirely).

On a side note, I wish that moving target would stop and stablize a bit sometimes (Ubuntu does this with the LTS releases). At least make a bug-free release for people to have at all times.

2) You can change it, though. I don’t care at all, I just make it bluish and it looks real nice (without half the system that Vista would use). I personally don’t like the XP default at all; three clicks and its different. Same with Ubuntu.

 
 
fold this thread Aspi  Friday, 7 December 2007 o godz. 9:29 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

This is, indeed, incredibly biaised.

Easier to get additionnal programs for Ubuntu than Windows ?

What kind of joke is it ?

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fold this thread Neville  Wednesday, 12 December 2007 o godz. 12:16 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

The kind of joke that isn’t a joke. ;)

 
fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 3:58 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

The kind where we all laugh at you for thinking it’s a joke

 
 
fold this thread William Irving  Sunday, 9 December 2007 o godz. 5:20 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +4

I just LOVE all these alternate revisionist computing histories being posted here! Every one I’ve read so far here is incorrect. I suspect the writers of them were knee-high to a sperm cell when this history was being made – these tales just don’t read like they’re coming from people who were there. The time lines for example. Macintosh users were enjoying OS7/8 with 24-bit color while we Intel/PC guys were slogging along with DOS?? Oh yeah, and some other pinhead amended that by saying that Windows was available during that time but nobody was using it because DOS “ran so much better(?)”

Get this straight!

Mac OS7 was released on May 13, 1991 and was updated with several “7-point-X” versions until July 26, 1997, when OS8 was released. Meanwhile, the PC world during that time frame had Windows 3.0, released on May 22, 1990; the Windows 3.x versions were the first Windows versions to become instantly popular (they were the first ones with a GUI that wasn’t a total joke). On July 27, 1993 came Windows NT, the first Microsoft OS that wasn’t just a glorified DOS shell. Coming out of Microsoft’s earlier ill-fated collaboration with IBM on OS/2, it featured protected-mode multi-tasking, and NTFS, a vastly more robust, efficient and secure file system than FAT.

On August 24, 1995 came Windows 95, Microsoft’s first venture into the 32-bit world, featuring a complete redesign of the Windows GUI from a purely application-centric environment to a document-centric model. When Mac OS8 was released, Microsoft was less than a year away from releasing Windows 98. During ALL that time, Windows was already dominant on the desktop. DOS applications (like WordPerfect 5.1) were still popular and DOS was usually running underneath, but the typical PC user rarely saw a command line – NEVER if he or she could help it.

The rule that computing people always seem ready to forget is that users (real human beings that is, not artists, not publishers, certainly not us geeks) don’t buy computers. And THEY CERTAINLY DON’T BUY OPERATING SYSTEMS! They don’t even buy software. They are buying work product; information; entertainment. The computers and the OSes, as well as the applications software that run on them are just the means to an end.

As many say over and over, ad nauseam, Microsoft OSes did not become dominant through their superiority. So what! Get over it! Microsoft’s genius was in how it leveraged DOS/Windows with business and gaming! Apple thought people would pay more for Macintoshes because of how much prettier and “better” they were. Apple didn’t get a clue until much too late, after the Wintel platform had gained too much momentum for them to overcome.

What initially drove people to choose DOS/Windows was business. In the late 80′s to 1990, nearly every office large and small ran WordPerfect and Lotus 123. These were the early “killer apps” in word processing and spreadsheets, and they were for DOS, not the Mac.

These people when not at work – when just kicking back – bought DOS computers because of the GAMES they could run on them. The coolest game developers went to DOS because the early Macs used too much scarce resources just running that pretty OS. Macintosh games sucked, but because DOS allowed game developers direct hardware access – as opposed to being mediated through API layers – they could get their games to do more and cooler things on machines with the low memory and processing power available in those days.

Apple may have built a better OS, but Microsoft never forgot that they weren’t selling the steak, they were selling the sizzle. Microsoft has always been a ruthless competitor. But then, so has Apple, with its competition and aftermarket-killing closed platform. Steve Jobs and God forbid that anyone but Apple be allowed to make a buck off the Macintosh. That Apple couldn’t outsell Microsoft with their superior product reflects poorly on Apple, not on Microsoft. The worst – and best – thing one can say about Microsoft is that they really knew how to put the lipstick on that pig.

——————————–

As for Ubuntu, I like it. I like it so much I am using it more and more and Windows Vista less and less. But that is IN SPITE of itself as much as because of it. I like how much faster things work in Ubuntu than in Vista. I like the clean simple look. I also like it that Linux doesn’t have that nasty Windows registry that causes Windows boxes to become glitchy and sclerotic over time.

I also like how easily Ubuntu installed on my laptop, without any issues. It ran at first boot, with all my hardware drivers properly installed and working. With some of my hardware, Vista STILL gives me problems on occasion. Moreover, while booting Vista really tries my patience, Ubuntu is up in relatively no time.

What I DON’T like is how much I am having to learn about the guts of Linux – the terminal interface – in order to install the applications I want and to get them running. I’ve been introduced to terms like “dependency hell.” While most of the Linux apps I use install without problems using Synaptic Package Manager, sometimes that doesn’t cut it. For instance, I am using Mozilla’s calendaring program Sunbird. Sunbird installed easily enough, but it didn’t work. After a lot of time doing much online research, I discovered that many of its dependencies were NOT installed and I had to round them up and install them before Sunbird would run. That is utter horsecrap! At least with Windows, if a needed DLL (Windows’ equivalent to a dependency) is not on the system, it is included in the installer package for the application and is installed automatically!

For Mozilla Songbird, my music manager of choice, I had to learn to install it manually using the command line. I did it. It runs. But what a pain in the ass! Once in a great while, I blow the cobwebs out of my mind and dust off some DOS commands in Windows, but I can go months without ever seeing a command line, let alone a DOS window. But in Ubuntu, I’ve discovered that I just can’t get by without learning the arcane commands of the Linux terminal. A day doesn’t go by without me having to open up that black box and get to typing.

I think Linux is wonderful. I think Ubuntu is wonderful. I think the whole open-source movement is wonderful. But as it now is, Linux still is not ready for prime time. Still too geeky for the masses. Many Linux users I know don’t care about that. In fact, I know a couple who still say that GUI’s are for pussies – REAL men use the command line for EVERYTHING. But most people, myself included, don’t like playing with operating system software. They want the OS to be totally transparent. They just want to get their work done.

Most motorists don’t mess with their engines. They just get in, turn the key, put it in gear and go. And it damned well better go, too! EVERY TIME! Of course, no computer operating system can meet that standard of user transparency yet. Not Windows Vista, not Mac OS-X. But Ubuntu Linux isn’t yet EVEN CLOSE! I think the developers of Ubuntu and many of the other popular distros out there want to make Linux a mass-market operating system, or else why do they even bother with efforts to refine a desktop environment for Linux at all? Just say to hell with GUI’s and make Linux strictly for the propeller heads and their command lines, abandoning the mass market to Windows and Macintosh.

When Linux becomes more polished, the heavy-hitting commercial content creation applications from players like Adobe, Corel and even Microsoft(!) will eventually come running. As it is, some of the applications I need just can’t run on Linux, even with the help of kludges like WINE. I want Ubuntu and Linux to succeed as a desktop operating system. I will support it and use it and actively promote it. But much work is still needed before Microsoft and Apple really need to be scared. Until that time, I will have to use Linux in a dual-boot set-up with Vista.

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fold this thread Peter  Thursday, 27 December 2007 o godz. 4:14 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Excellent! The best – even if too long – shot in this forum. Needless to say, I couldn’t agree more.
Thanks!

PG

fold this thread Ehem.  Tuesday, 8 January 2008 o godz. 8:33 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Agreed. This post is arguably better than the main article.

Dependancy hell indeed.

 
 
fold this thread Kasper  Tuesday, 26 February 2008 o godz. 6:40 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I really agree with you. I think the reason why we do not get rid of the Terminal is because of all those different distributions/Desktop Environments and package-managers.

But I really love Ubuntu, started out 2 months ago and I’m really impressed. Looking forward to see how it turns out for Ubuntu. I have great faith in Ubuntu.

 
fold this thread skrapasor  Friday, 25 July 2008 o godz. 3:30 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

stupid idiots don’t understand how much faster command-line installation and configuration is, however I understand that the majority of the market for operating systems is a bunch of stupid idiots that don’t even know what an OS is.

fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 4:27 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

just because you can do it in a command line doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be able to use a GUI as well. Setting up a program shouldn’t require going into the terminal, using apt-get or any other commands. For the most part, this works very well in Ubuntu, but a few programs do have their problems. When I let someone else use my PC, I don’t want to have to train them to use a terminal first. If I just want a new program, it shouldn’t be required to educate myself on every little nuance of that program before I can use it or even install it. I’m not saying take this out, I love that I can go into every program on my OS and see how it works, what makes it work and how to change that behavior to do whatever I feel like. I love how easy the terminal is to use and get used to and I love how fast it runs, but I get tired of it. I have a mouse for a reason. I like to use it, I like to click on things and get things done that otherwise I would have to type in commands for. I’m not an idiot when it comes to computers of any kind, I’m not lazy, I’m realistic and I like to get my moneys worth. I’m also cheap, so getting my moneys worth means a lot more to me than for most. An OS shouldn’t be a learning experience unless you’re in school learning about an OS. Use the command line as an alternate way of doing things, but not as the only way. Linux is about choice and it’s about community. Saying the terminal is it reminds me a lot of how a certain large company everyone loves to hate operates. In other words, when you say “it’s my way or the highway”, you’re saying for everyone to bow down to you. My answer to that, I don’t think so Mr. Gates.

 
 
 
fold this thread Icebreaker  Monday, 10 December 2007 o godz. 1:23 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

Hey guys :)

The only reason why people ‘hate’ Vista is because they don’t have the hardware to run it, and that’s a common trait … you hate what you don’t know :) )

It’s the same with programmers …

e.g:

Delphi dude:> ‘oh, i hate C, C sux ballz’ :) )

I’m a huge GNU/Linux and Open Source Fan, and I have a nice dual boot system with Windows Vista Home Premium and Ubuntu 7.10 :)

I use Vista to develop for Windows using the quite powerful Visual C++ / C# Express Editions and play the latest games, there are no slowdowns compared to XP :) ) and Ubuntu to develop on Linux.

I find both OS’s visually appealing and one can be productive on both of them.

They both have their advantages and drawbacks :) )

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fold this thread Rishabh  Monday, 10 December 2007 o godz. 6:48 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I really think Windows Vista and Linux Desktop Os es cater to different crowds…

Vista or any Microsoft Os, is aimed at people, who arent much into computers , cant (or dont want to) punch in cryptic commands in a black window, but have to use computers for their day work. And windows caters to this crowd with elan.

As for linux, it’s for enthusiasts, people who are ready to spend hours, tinkering around, and reading the manual, posting and socializing on discussion forums and basically enjoy discovering new things. For them Linux comes as a very good platform to experiment , learn and innovate.

So it is not fair to compare the operating system in any fashion. The bottom line is you cant teach new tricks to a old dog, Linux is meant for power users and needs a fair amount of configuration and tinkering before it works just the way you want it to, on the other hand, Windows works out of the box, just the way IT wants to.

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fold this thread William Irving  Thursday, 27 December 2007 o godz. 8:11 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

You may be right. But again, that begs the question, if Linux is primarily for geeks, why GNOME? Or even KDE? Why are there companies like Canonical (Ubuntu and its flavors), Mandriva and Novell (SUSE) busting their humps to release ever more user-friendly GUI’s, with more and more eye-candy, with support for such useless frippery as iPods, multi-media editing and the like?

MacOS-X is (God forgive me, I’m about to say something nice about Apple!) a wonder of transparency; there is a terminal interface (some UNIX shell or other that I can’t remember), but no Mac user need go near it – EVER! OS-X runs over a flavour of UNIX (It is based on some variant of FreeBSD, I believe). From the results, I would say that the developers at Apple taught some very slick “new tricks” to a UNIX-based OS that in most fundamental ways is very similar to Linux. If Apple can do it, why not Canonical?

OS-X works right out of the box, is very stable and indeed works just the way IT wants to. But that way is very appealing to people. OS-X can’t be easily hacked as say, Ubuntu, but Apple’s target customer has no need or desire to hack operating systems. That we Ubuntu (and Windows) users still feel the need to “tweak” and “hack” shows the imperfections of their user interfaces. If they worked the way they were supposed to, people like me – who are not software engineers – would just shut up and leave them alone, and not be always looking for “tweaks” and “hacks” to make them do things properly.

My point is, Linux should not NEED a “fair amount of configuration and tinkering.” People who want to and get off on such things certainly should be able to – that is much of the point of Open Source after all, but if companies like Canonical are going to tout their distros as “Linux for the masses,” they still have lots of work to do before they truly make good on that claim.

 
 
fold this thread Perl  Thursday, 13 December 2007 o godz. 6:23 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  --4

blah blah blah – so what’s the point guys?

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fold this thread Mo  Friday, 14 December 2007 o godz. 5:11 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

Personally, I think people are just rebelling against Microsoft, any alternative that works for them will do, if not they are stuck with Microsoft.

Microsoft has made its money through it’s unfair licencing, its activation policies and pushing people into something they didn’t need and parting with hard earned cash.

If you don’t like it, do something about it!

Linux is an option, not the only option but a reasonable one. If you have tried it and it can cater for your needs, good, stick with it. If not look elswhere.

We all have different uses for our computers and so we will not settle this debate in this way.

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fold this thread Don J. Thorpe  Saturday, 15 December 2007 o godz. 10:05 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I agree with Mo. Linux is an option. We should use it.

Personally, I am planning to move to MacOSX in the next five years,
and leave the whole PC world behind…

I have been “keeping up” with the PC world since Windows 3.1. I was Mac based before then. Mac Plus, Apple IIe, even had a Timex Sinclair touch key computer and a Texas Instrument (Cartridge based). Oh, Can’t forget the Atari ST!

The point I’m making is that the whole PC world is up in arms with Vista now… People are getting tired of being bullyed around by the Big Brother MS, and I don’t blame them!!!

Apple is on the rise, and MS is taking away XP licenses from PC Vendors, forcing people to use Vista. Well, what if people don’t want to bully around anymore?

Sooner or later MS is going to have to face the fact that the consumer wants CHOICE. When you take that away from the consumer, it forces change into the Marketplace.

I am proud to say that I am a Ubuntu user. I have tried MANY distros. OpenSUSE, Fedora/Redhat, Mandrake Linux (my first), SmartLinux, and finally Ubuntu!

It took me a while to get used to a Debian based system. But I feel comfortable now. But when you look at how much Linux is come since the days of Windows 95, it is quite remarkable to see where linux is today.

Gutsy Gibbon is the best release of Ubuntu yet! I have a dualboot setup on my desktop. It is a gorgeous dual monitor setup!!!! I was so happy to read that feature! Otherwise, I’d be using OpenSUSE.

My laptop uses gold old Dapper Drake 6.06. For some odd reason that is the only version that will install on an external USB hard drive and NOT but the bootloader on the internal hardrive. Anything higher will. Weird. Whatever works!

I use Linux on a daily basis, and I have to be frank. Windows is so dang SLOW!!! I don’t know how to explain it, but Linux is so much more FLUID. Things are faster, quicker. I feel more productive in Ubuntu than in Windows…

And the best part, I don’t have to defrag and woeey about viruses and spyware!!! I can surf the web with no worries… Unlike Windows…

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fold this thread Sulfura  Thursday, 20 December 2007 o godz. 5:24 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

About UAC: It is annoying because it is a modal form and I can’t do anything else before giving Vista permissions. I can’t stand if my OS takes away functionality to tell me something. Same goes for apps which force focus, especially when I’m writing something while an app is loading in the background (many Windows apps do this but OpenOffice does it as well on Linux). If Linux asks permissions it forces focus (here again), but it isn’t a modal form and doesn’t lock up your computer just to get the users input.

Plus, UAC has a shadowing Effect which always causes my CRT to flicker before asking and after my input. After the 7. flicker you get pretty much annoyed.

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fold this thread surveyork  Saturday, 22 December 2007 o godz. 5:09 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

Hi there.

For starters I’d like to point out that the comparison in this article was made in 2 different computers. With the same hardware specs? That’s an important point.

I’ve tried Knoppix, Ubuntu, Damn Small Linux, Debian, Windows 98, 2000 and XP Pro on the same computer. The best ones in my test were 2000 and XP since they were stable, recognized all devices without a problem and I could use lots of apps and play all my favorite games. Among the Linux family, Knoppix was my personal winner -stable, recognized almost everything, but no full compatibility with my software. Dam Small Linux also behaved amazingly well for its small size. Debian was too complicated and didn’t recognize all my hardware. Ubuntu was more of a resource hog with its default settings than XP was, plus it didn’t recognize my sound card and my Ethernet card, and, of course, no full compatibility with my software (even with emulators).

In any case, for me the dilemma is not Ubuntu vs Vista, but XP vs Vista and user-friendly GNU/Linux distros vs XP. Why install Vista when XP is running absolutely fine? Why take the incompatibility road with Linux distros? Why should anybody switch to any other OS if they can’t run the software they need at work or at home? Because it’s new? Because it’s better? What’s the use of a sports car when you have 5 kids? Oh, you want to show off? That’s fine.

I’d also like to point out that many Linux distros -and now Vista- strive to imitate the MacOS GUI. Furthermore, I see a trend in current desktop OSs to opt for eye-candy, effect-bloated GUIs when there’s absolutely no need for that.

Will my files be more safe if my OS shows a translucid, multi-desktop GUI? Will my hardware be better recognized if my OS has colorful, bouncing, interactive icons?

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fold this thread jon  Sunday, 23 December 2007 o godz. 10:22 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

well i jsut wanted to add i agree with every that ws said above in windows vs unbantu, i have not had any problem what so ever with unbantu and i use AMD in all my pcs, t to mention you dont need a serialto install it! and its doesnt cost 200 bucks either like vasta does.. so its much cheapper and you have the freedom to install it on as many computers as you like.. AIM : jhall2357

upstate NY

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fold this thread Gianfrix  Monday, 24 December 2007 o godz. 5:37 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

The PC running Vista in the screenshot is TPM compatible….. Look at the second screenshot…. :-(

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fold this thread Joe  Wednesday, 26 December 2007 o godz. 7:43 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +2

Dammit, you kids have it all wrong.

First of all, for anyone claiming that Microsoft is some sort of innovator and they always had a better product, take a look at the movie “Pirates of Silicon Valley.” Only in recent days have Microsoft tried to make better products – because of pressure from FOSS and a new-found pressure from Apple. Still, their software never quite meets up to what you would expect from a company so rich as Microsoft. And, they continue to inject “lock-in” features..

Ubuntu, on the other hand, isn’t a bad distribution. For my part, it’s been the easiest one yet. Based on Debian, improved with more cutting-edge software and driven by popularity and money, it’s getting really slick. It could become the distribution of choice, for any application, in the next few years. It’s a good thing: It doesn’t matter how popular Ubuntu gets, how much percentage of the Linux market share it gets. You’ll always be able to run your distribution of choice because it’s Open Source. There can BE no lock-in with Ubuntu. THAT’S why it’s Free as in Freedom.

Sheesh, it’s not rocket surgery.

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fold this thread Mike  Thursday, 27 December 2007 o godz. 4:21 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

Well, that’s not a really smart person’s review, no offense. I mean how can you compare the world’s worst OS, and Linux? They are absolutely and totally different! Only losers who are too poor to buy a Mac(I don’t blame them) or are too stupid and lazy to install a real OS use Windows.
By the way, Ubuntu is incredibly beautiful and easy, much more beautiful than Vista! Just think of Compiz, Avant Window Navigator and all the different FREE themes available for both Gnome and KDE they are so much better than Vista’s sucky Aero! And if you actually like the way Vista looks download the Linsta theme from gnome-look.org! Overall I’d rate Ubuntu-Vista as K.O. for Ubuntu!

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fold this thread William Irving  Thursday, 27 December 2007 o godz. 9:13 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

You are being a troll. But just this once, I will bite…

“World’s Worst OS”? That is YOUR opinion. It is not a fact. At least not a fact that can be tested, because in order to test it, you would first have to get everyone to agree about what constitutes “good” and “bad” in an operating system. People who USE operating systems don’t agree on that. People who twiddle, tweak, hack and crack them agree less. And the folks who actually develop and refine them agree even less than that! So – in the nicest way possible – you just called someone an idiot because he didn’t agree with your passionately held, albeit unverifiable opinion! Not very sporting if you ask me.

Well, I guess I am a loser, too. I use Windows. But certainly not because I’m lazy. If I were lazy, I would drink Steve Jobs’s Koolaid, buy a Mac for too much money, and never do a bloody thing to it except sync up my iPod with the latest flat-sounding, over-compressed and copy-protected downloads I paid iTunes too much for. Windows makes me work. And, unfortunately, Ubuntu makes me work even more!

[I didn't think anything could be a bigger pain in the butt than upgrading from Windows XP to Vista. But Ubuntu Feisty Fawn to Gutsy Gibbon was a total mash. I eventually gave up, backed up, wiped and installed Gutsy from clean.]

As for the respective beauty – or ugliness – of the available desktop OSes, that is in the eyes of the beholder – not a matter of intelligence but a matter of – again – OPINION!

I really like Ubuntu. I use it a lot these days. I am indeed using it this very moment. But Ubuntu – alas and damn it – doesn’t like my scanner. Specifically, the SANE project’s x-sane just does not support my Canon CanoScan 9950F. This was, in 2005/06, Canon’s top-of-the-range consumer scanner, so it is not some old obsolete clunker, nor is it some obscure off-branded industrial model. There is no excuse for this scanner not being supported!

What’s more, I really like this scanner. It works beautifully. And we’ve been together for longer than I’ve been using Ubuntu. Moreover, it was expensive. So until Ubuntu supports it, I will still need Windows Vista for at least whenever I am scanning. It’s not my fault that Linux hardware support still sucks. I suppose it IS my fault that I am such a miser and refuse to pay Steve Jobs what he wants for a Macintosh. So until Linux hardware support STOPS sucking, and I can wipe my hard drive clean of the Evil Empire’s satanic OS, leave me alone already!! I am coping the best way I can!

 
 
fold this thread karl  Friday, 4 January 2008 o godz. 11:57 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +1

What about security? Recruit some crackers and do a crackertest!! CRACKATTACK!!! :=)

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fold this thread Andrew  Saturday, 19 January 2008 o godz. 9:38 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I love these kinds of comments. I have been using linux for about six or seven years (since Mandrake 6) and now use Ubuntu and love it.

For years linux users were always the underdogs, longing for the OS to take to the desktop in a big way, waiting for a chance when Linux becomes a popular OS choice for the general public and a competitor to the MS/MAC choice.

Now we have a distro that, by whatever means, has begun to capture public and media attention, even the BBC did a half hour show on Ubuntu not long back and what does everyone do…. bash it.

For god’s sack, isn’t this what we’ve all been waiting for. Granted other distro’s are very good but for whatever reason its Ubuntu thats tok off. We should be behind it, encouraging its use not trashing it and comparing Canonical to MS as if Canonical is some huge corrupt meglomanic enterprise.

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fold this thread Arnold L. Johnson  Sunday, 20 January 2008 o godz. 7:16 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I agree with you. Besides being extra-ordinarily picky and fussy over details, some people have moved their fear of Microsoft over to Canonical. They think a big corporation taints Linux. They also think that Linux is the work of thousands of free wheeling programmers who work for nothing, spending their own time working on Linux. Even I thought this, this is not true. Red Hat is one of the biggest supporters and developers of Linux. Those developers are paid to develop Linux. Even with passion, how long can you work for nothing?

I really hate that the press centers on different “distros” as competing for popular use as if they each were a different OS. All the “distros” are made of “some” of Linux. To make a popular “distro” from all the Linux parts is quite a feat. No matter the distro it is still Linux. To be able to build a distro from all the parts is a feature of Linux. If you don’t like the arrangement, select another distro, there are 400+ to choose from and we can yet make our own.

I been a Linux user for 10 years, use Xubuntu and Wolvix.

 
 
fold this thread vince  Tuesday, 22 January 2008 o godz. 11:11 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

i can’t belive i read all these coments but they are interstening in many ways.

whatever i am a noob. a real one. have used a computer for less then two years. and of course it was xp….and still is on some extend. but however i stumbled upon on ubuntu. didn’t know what linux was and really didn’t care. but then i heard all the things people talked about and i could’nt agree more. microsoft got on my nerves. i had to rebood and kill spywares day after day. so i gave ubuntu a try….. it took me one four days to understand everything via google….partitioning din’t even know that i had a bios…wathever. finally i got it to work. and after a week. i got every thing installed and got every program i want. yes it was hard but i don’t know i got fascinated buy all i learnt. the magic of computing opend before my eyes and iven if i don’t know even thiniest bit that you guys know. i learn and i learn fast and that could’nt be done with xp.

either way i would allready kick microsoft from my computer and stop the dualboot….but i have to use photoshop. i’m in art school and the gimp or vine isn’t an alternative.

now i would not throw linux on my friends because it was very hard for me. but there was just something appealing about ubuntu and his community and all i learnt about linux in general.

know i didn’t try other distros….and probably won’t for know. maybe one day when i learnt enough. but i’m happy with ubuntu it is perfect and can’t wait for hardy to get released.

well i thank you for all your comments. i learn a lot and i love it.

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fold this thread BITS,Pilani, India  Friday, 25 January 2008 o godz. 7:26 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

A fantastic read…. some nice comments and points of view…
I was a Windows user from my child hood. Ever since MS released 2000 and XP, i was unhappy with MS… When i got my own machine (a laptop with ATI, the worst hardware for linux) last year, it came preloaded with Vista… Something I couldn’t help… I tried to live with it but simply coudn’t handle the UAC. And every time I booted the system, the Security centre bugged me… Then I installed Ubuntu 7.04 and later moved on to 7.10… I have never looked back… :)

The effects of both Vista and Ubuntu dont matter to me… They are show off stuff that one uses to impress… not something you want in everyday work… But the simplicity of Linux and Ubuntu has captured me…I can download any application I want completely free of charge and LEGALLY, instead of using cracked versions of Windoze apps from our college LAN any time I want.

Also, Ubuntu has helped me learn a lot about computers and improved my grades in the basic computer courses that I have… I simply love it for that… I have now started experimenting with other distros.. will take me time to get used to them… But I advise Ubuntu for anyone who wants to move to linux and quite a few of my friends are happy with it…

And, I have played with Vista and Ubuntu on the same computer… and use Vista only when I HAVE to… that is when I have work on photoshop or corel draw…

Waiting for Hardy Heron (8.04), the LTS… It should be a treat as it will be my first LTS….. :)

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fold this thread subixonfire  Tuesday, 12 February 2008 o godz. 5:15 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

my way of thinking is

linux ws winblows

linux (ubuntu)
+apt
+free
+customizable
+stabyle
+faster

winblows
+ o fuck cant fing a + thing about winblows

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fold this thread VMguru007  Monday, 18 February 2008 o godz. 4:55 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Hi,

This is a great comparison. Another good one which is more detailed one I have came across the other day at http://itcomparison.com/OS/vistavsubuntu/vistavsubuntu.htm
With these type of comparisons spreading around seems Ubuntu is making a good buzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy,
VMguru007

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fold this thread KaiserZr  Wednesday, 5 March 2008 o godz. 5:39 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I am new to linux and one of my networking administrator professors recommended me Ubuntu linux. My machine is currently installed (in a dual-boot setting) with Ubuntu v7.1, Windows XP, and Windows Vista ultimate. My machine is powerful enough to play crysis high with out any slow down(the only real benchmark I have at the moment). I am a gamer so for that reason I will always maintain a copy of XP and Vista, but I know going into the IT field I need to be familiar with all manor of operation systems which is why I am trying to learn about linux, starting with some of the easier distros and then moving onto the more advanced when I have learned the command line and inner workings of linux better.

I am one not to really put my complete loyalty in one side, I just want to use my computer for what I want. Whether it be programming, music recording, gaming, or just web surfing and experimenting with my machine. I am not going to bash one side or say this side is the greatest, like some people seem to do.

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fold this thread George  Friday, 7 March 2008 o godz. 2:28 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

My son at SMU absolutely hates Vista with an almost rabid distaste. Then I had my other son at the community col. purchase a student business version and let me install it for him on a brand new computer. Since he was off at school he let me use it fresh out of install. I updated it and added all the common protective spyware, virus scanner and firewall. It is a nightmare. I started getting the blue screen of death a week into using it! Applications stop launching or updating until you begin closing other currently running on a one for one and them later its one less on every launch action until you have only two and then you have to reboot. I think this is going to be the death bell for windows. Not only has it pushed me to ubuntu but I am playing with Leopard…..on my Intel based PC….If an old die hard 44 year old Windows user who cut his teeth on DOS 5 leaves for Ubuntu and Leopard after tasting Vista that should send shivers at Microsoft. Their metal was tested on this maiden voyage in the north sea and was found to be hit by an iceberg of distaste and insurection. All I can say about Vista is bye bye. I you think I have bad pc get this. I have two identical systems. 2gig duo with 667 2 gig ram, ati 2900 vid, 2 maxtors at 1 tera sata. Vista rated my PC at a 4.8 out of a 5.8 scale to bad MS lost its edge. Linux screams on that machine like no tomorrow. I wont need to upgrade for at least 4 years at this rate. saves me some $$ on top of it.

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fold this thread Kevin S.  Saturday, 15 March 2008 o godz. 12:23 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Very interesting commentary…
I also have been a Windows user from the very beginning, hmmmm 3.1 or something, anyways long before my kids were born. As the years have progressed so has Microsoft’s arrogance. It has slowly and methodically taken possession of its customers’ computers. It “phone home” mentality coupled with the incessant virus and spyware problems has finally pushed me over the edge to Ubuntu. What a pain in the as_ the change over was. It tooks at least 3 weeks of frustration to get the Ubuntu system up and running the way I wanted it. It was a “cold-turkey” rehab from Windows. I certainly didn’t want to spend the time learning a new system but I have to say it was overwhelming worth it!!! My biggest problem was expecting Linux to act like Windows which it is not. Well finally the tough work was done thanks to the excellent help from the Ubuntu tech support which was totally free and amazingly fast. Type in your problem and in less than 30 minutes an ANSWER that WORKS! Heck, I’ve waited 30 minutes just waiting for an operator when calling for Microsoft support. This computer is not set up for my family with separate logins for my wife , me and my 2 sons. They all love it and would kill me if I switched back to a Windows machine. After the setup its all gravy!

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fold this thread Jonas  Monday, 24 March 2008 o godz. 12:15 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I really like your comparison… It is one of the non-partisan, witch is very hard to find… thx

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fold this thread Raiko Exposito  Friday, 28 March 2008 o godz. 1:42 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I like your points. “Now at this point. Will you use Vista again?” a OS that is almost $200 and problem with compatibility and its network and firewall are not fully protected, where virus are anywhere. I hope you steel used just for fun and not forget there still windows user.

A good version of Windows is XP. I steel using it I love XP and how good they develop it. Vista the future of trouble and game I can tell you that is very good for Media, however this is my example that you may like.

I got an Xbox 360, with I use to connect with Media Center desktop. I change it for Vista and guess what the problem was: with both computer on XP media center and Vista, and with the same configuration and code to detect my Xbox on the network, the XP one pick the IP before and automatic, some that Vista did not did. It should be the other way around because Vista should be the future and should be better.

If Microsoft give a better done to Vista I might used it….

If you want a good desktop get to Download SUSE 10.3

Download your DVD for FREE and have a better OS.

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fold this thread David Cantwell  Wednesday, 2 April 2008 o godz. 6:22 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Nice post..I like it a lot. If anything, you have bias against Ubuntu. You criticize it for hanging up when using Compiz special effects. Those effects are meant for better video cards, not bad ones like yours.

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fold this thread tmsbrdrs  Sunday, 11 January 2009 o godz. 5:29 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

using an nVidia geforce 4000 and they work beautifully on mine. How bad does a video card have to be in order to not be good enough for Compiz?

 
 
fold this thread Dissident  Friday, 18 April 2008 o godz. 11:53 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Все равно пи з дец скоро всей вашей амер ике будет

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fold this thread Dissident  Friday, 18 April 2008 o godz. 11:55 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Free BSD forever

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fold this thread Peter  Thursday, 31 July 2008 o godz. 12:20 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Great thread, its good to see so many people interested in Linux. I am seriously considering Installing Ubuntu on my main PC in the near future. When I went home for the summer I used ubuntu on an old box and loved it – I figure its time to give linux a serious chance! I own a Mac and love it – and it has taught me that dual booting is really possible even if you play video games. I run OSX 90% of the time, but whenever I play games I reboot into XP. This stategy should work great with Ubuntu too – besides games there is nothing holding me to windows.

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fold this thread Michael  Tuesday, 5 August 2008 o godz. 4:12 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Oh wow. It’s NOT called “Warthy Warthdog” that sounds stupid. It was named Warty Warthog!!

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fold this thread Smith  Tuesday, 26 August 2008 o godz. 11:55 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

We all have our stories.

I run Kubuntu on a shuttle Core2Duo 2, have a MacMini running Panther, a MacBookBlack on Leopard, a Fujitsu P1510D doing TabletPC 2005, a T4220 doing Vista Business32 (Tablet), A Ferrari 4005 running Vista Ultimate 64, a custom box running XPPro for LiquidPro7 and games, a 2002 XPPro Toshiba 2.8HT 17 incher in the kitchen… oh, and two ancient no-name 1.8GHz single cores with 768GB RAM running Windows Server 2003 Standard (SqlServer Standard on both, IIS on one, WindowsMediaServer and Wowza Media Server on the other and they do just fien with low ram and occassionally high loads).

I haven’t had any problems with Vista, personally, but I guess that’s just me. Honestly, one of my servers hadn’t had a reboot in well over a year (I did it when I added Java6 and the Wowza Server because I just figured it was time but not that it needed it) and the other I don’t know how long its been.

As a developer my last year of so has been all Java and Flash (predominantly coding on a Windows 2003 Server standard machine) but before that it was years of .Net and before that COM. Since moving up from Windows 2000 Pro and Server I honestly can not remember ever seeing the Blue Screen of Death that Linux and Mac folks love to talk about being so common on a Windows box.

Honest.

And as a dev I do a lot of bashing of my machines and registries. My Macs are also pretty stable (Though I find it annoying that the MacBook has to be rebooted about 50% of the time after installing Adobe or even Apple-branded software … but I can live with it). The Kubuntu box? Well, it brings back memories of my first OS …real olde UNIX on a mini mainframe … it’s fine geeky fun to have to spend so much time searching the internet for the secret commandlines to get stuff working, but for anyone who just needs a machine to work I wouldn’t personally recommend it. Becuase if I do them I’m the one who’s going to get the phone calls to help people and it’s just a drag to tell people to type switches over the phone :)

Now, I know, because I’ve read them in this thread, that there are people who say to heck with regular users they are all stupid and shouldn’t even have computers ;-) , but IMVHO that isn’t a particularly bright point of view. And we all know that they were kidding, right?

Now then, here’s my personal view on the good folks who have personal, real, complaints about Microsoft. This is a true story, from a real regular person.

When XP first came out I went to OfficeMax and bought my upgrade copy. OfficeMax (Not Microsoft) put a no-returns policy on the software if the box was open. Kinda standard in all Windows and Mac software retail chains but for an OS, it’s a bit more of a big deal. Guess what… I ran the upgrade as a full install (because upgrades are never right) and once finished XP Pro locked up over and over (locked, not blue screened, a blue would have at least given me a dump).

With no way to return it, I put it in a manilla envelope and addressed it to Mr. William Gates, Chief Software Architect, Microsoft Corp, One Microsoft Way, Redmond. Along with the XP folder and disc I included a short note saying that I had been very pleased with most Microsoft products over the years and especially grateful for the high value that Microsoft obviously put on the professional development community but XP just was not working for me and if he (Gates) could make it run then he could keep it. My note ended with the sentence “All the best, I’m sure the next OS will be great.”

Two or three days later I got a call from the head of Windows OS Testing (Chang, I believe was his name, but it’s been years). He told me that “Bill asked me to give you a call and figure out what was going on with your computer”. I live just one town over from Redmond so he offered to come over and “debug XP” at my house. Instead I drove my compaq over to the campus and dropped it off with him.

A few days after that I got another call. The problem with XP had been found. My extremely normal and very common Compaq Presario desktop BIOS was way out of date. After they’d updated it the problems stopped.

I felt very silly to have not verified my BIOS and for having brought my supposed-pro ignorance up to the top level attention, but the test group guys were very nice about it, The one guy said that in looking over my machine they did find a compatibility issue in a Compaq driver that they hadn’t seen before, and that it helped them and that they would have a patch for that on Windows Update for all of the other Compaq users in a matter of days … which they absolutely did (that was really weird, like interactive TV).

You may doubt this all but I swear that it is true, and I was assured that Mr. Gates himself did get my letter, did read my letter and did make things happen for me. Probably if I wasn’t living so close and easy it might not have been as quick, but I got the real impression that everyone at Microsoft that I dealt with took my issue seriously and even personally.

Since that day… I have no complaints about the level of service or the dedication of Microsoft employees or about Microsoft employees caring about their products. I think that if other folks have different stories, they might consider that they aren’t asking the right people (or the right way) for help. You don’t ask bum in the street the best way to make a million dollars, and like the joke says 3rd party tech support is 2 parties away from the party :)

Windows, Mac, Linux, whatever. Eventually folks get older, hopefully get girlfriends ;-) , and it all becomes less of a burning religious issue. They’re just machines and the screen shots above are all just tricks of light.

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fold this thread Joe L  Friday, 19 September 2008 o godz. 9:34 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  --1

Linux is the best! Hey, can you do solaris against windows? That would be just great!!! :-) :-} :-] :-| :-[ :-{ :-(

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fold this thread Willy-bill  Monday, 11 January 2010 o godz. 12:13 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

My take on this, is the OS fits the need . . . meaning if you have a particular need that a particular OS fits, well . . . if the shoe fits . . . use it. All my CD’s and audio tapes are in MP3 format, and until the last 5 years, could only be done with any amount of success on Windows. Today we have decent to great programs in Linux that does this also.

I also purchase movies, TV shows, and music videos on DVD, and to date, I have yet to find any Linux based program capable of ripping and encoding video the way DVDShrink and DVDx can, and of course, under Windows.

Open Office.org is used on both my Windows box, Ubuntu box, and both boots on my laptop. I have MS Access, and MS Visual Studios on my XPPro-x64 on this laptop, but those are required programs from the college. I also have Dev-C, which I prefer over VS.

But I have uses that both Windows and Ubuntu fits, and I want a Mac just for fun, but not at their prices.

With all that said, the post was bias in some degree, and unbias in others. Although I will not elaborate, I will say most of the comments (not all) were bashings related to love-maybe-hate relationships dealing with either OS’s, including MAC. But I digress, and will allow myself, for the satisfacion of the true ignorant, to be named among the ones who are called ignorant and stupid for keeping Windows around.

PS: When I say true ignorant, I am remarking against those who think Linux (whether with or without a GUI, doesn’t matter) is the way to go, and anyone opposing the idea must be lame, stupid, ignorant, and anything else they can throw out . . . kind of like racism, only an ignorant would conceive color of skin, or country of origin as a feature that disqualifies a person as a human being. My thoughts, but the oft heated debate over OS’s is often akin to the debate of skin color, esspecially when one gets so opinionated that his/her opinion becomes fact and must be imposed upon any and everyone else.

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fold this thread Astros  Sunday, 17 January 2010 o godz. 6:13 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

I wanted to write a comment like that, but looks like you did it before me.

I tried ubuntu for few weeks, loved it, loved the speed (was istalled with Wubi). But I’m really bad with computers, and didn’t understood Linux well. I couldn’t install correctly my programs, I mean, I couldn’t get used to the terminal thingy. Also, my Pen tablet was not fully working on Ubuntu.

I loved my Linux experience, but I would like a more ” friendly ” interface, like Windows. If I would not be drawing all time with my computer, Linux would probably be my choice.

fold this thread Willy-Bill  Wednesday, 20 January 2010 o godz. 5:31 am #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Astros:

“I wanted to write a comment like that, but looks like you did it before me.”

To be honest, I usually don’t let myself rant like that. But this time, I felt it necessary to set the record straight, especially with the “My way or the highway” attitude that was coming to light.

My distro has a utility that will install packages, making it easier to install needed programs (providing they are available). At the moment, my brain is unable to retrieve the name of this utility, but it does work.

But you are right, though, the interface isn’t as friendly as Windows, although in some respect it is pretty eye candy. That aside, I was thinking of wiping my installs and installing Kubuntu instead, it uses KDE with a task bar similar to Windows (although maintains the same unfriendlyness of Linux).

Your last paragraph fully highlights my remark about the OS fits the needs. I can’t give solid advice as I don’t feel I qualify, however I do suggest sticking with Windows for what you need it for, and if financing is available, experiment with Linux on a separate machine.

 
 
 
fold this thread diseño web  Sunday, 21 February 2010 o godz. 3:18 pm #  Add karma Subtract karma  +0

Pienso que la principal diferencia es la robustez, en este aspecto Linux lleva muchos años luz de ventaja sobre windows.

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Linux destroyed my hard disk!!! I cannot access my Windows files any more!!!

Linux sucks so much!!! :( (((((((((((((((8

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